Hindustan Times

May 19, 2005

Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's call to the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to "redefine its approaches and restructure its capabilities" is long overdue. The country has showered a great deal of respect and money on the organisation since the mid-Eighties, but it has got back precious little to show for it.

Uncritical and downright wrong-headed media coverage leads to the DRDO getting credit for even missiles like the workhorse surface-to-air missile Trishul and Akash and the Nag anti-tank missile, which were to have entered service in 1993-94, and have not. In an era in which unmanned aerial aircraft play such a key role, all that the DRDO has to boast about is the Lakshya, a minor aerial vehicle used simply as a target for air-to-air missiles. The Nishant UAV is being kept alive through artificial life-support, as is the Arjun MBT.

The Pakistani missile arsenal, leaving aside the matter of how it was acquired, is at least a decade ahead of Prithvi and Agni. Hubris and the DRDO's own bureaucratised culture are to blame for this state of affairs, as well as its penchant for needless publicity and reinventing the wheel.

But don't blame the DRDO alone for this state of affairs. The user services, with the exception of the Indian Navy, have a huge, and for the country costly, inferiority complex when it comes to using Indian-designed equipment. Take the LCA, a great achievement for which the country has laid down Rs 5,000 crore (US $ 1.15 Billion at US $ 1 = Indian Rs 43.44) investment so far. The IAF makes a show of being interested, but its equipment plans are aimed at strangling the programme.

The government must knock a few heads in the armed forces and get them to work with some sincerity with the DRDO to bring indigenously designed equipment into service. Our strategic defence is now based on nuclear weapons, and tensions with Pakistan and China have eased so there is a bit of a cushion.

Equipment plans for the air force and the army based on imported systems should be delayed and even scrapped, to give indigenous programmes the needed impetus. Only by taking a tough stand on such issues will the country be able to get a return on the massive investments it has made on defence research.

The Indian Army is losing its aging tanks faster than new and modernized ones are ready for service, according to service sources here.

The Army expects to lose 50% of its fleet in the next 3 to 4 years. The government in April decided to scrap all 800 of the service’s Vijayanta tanks. They will be stripped of guns, communication and surveillance equipment and auctioned off later this year, a Defence Ministry official said.

Developed for India by the British company Vickers, now part of BAE SYSTEMS, the Vijayanta has been in service since 1966.

Army sources say that by 2008, an additional approximately 1,000 of the Army’s more than 3,000 tanks will be ready to be junked.

An Army official said the service’s 500 T-55 tanks are due to be scrapped in that period, and about 400 T-72s will be nonfunctional in another two or three years, leaving the Army with a serious tank shortfall in that time frame.

At the same time, the Army continues to await full induction of its Arjun main battle tank 30 years after the state-owned Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) began developing it, and the program to modernize its T-72 tanks is not yet in full swing. Around 500 of India’s T-72 tanks are slated to be fully modernized by 2014.

“With the depleting tank strength, there would be an attempt by DRDO to procure another tank project for its laboratories,” said defense analyst Sament Harish, a retired Indian Army captain. “Such a move would be a blunder … India should buy advanced tanks from overseas markets at an urgent pace, along with undertaking the upgrading of the T-72 tanks.”

The Army’s fleet today includes the Russian-made T-55, T-72 and T-90, the Vijayanta and the Arjun, which still is used only for training.

The Army official said only 180 of about 1,600 T-72 tanks have been upgraded, around 125 T-55s are functional and the Arjun still is too cumbersome for combat.

ArjunK’s Troubles:

The Army is not happy with the homegrown Arjun. The first five were delivered by the Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory, Chennai, last year as part of a 124-tank order.

Originally slated for first delivery in 1990, with mass production planned to begin in 1997, the 124 Arjuns now are expected to be inducted for Army service by 2012.

DRDO began developing the tank in 1974 and delivered the first prototype in 1984. But problems — including the tank’s weight, its overheating engine and the level of armor protection — delayed the program.

The 58.5-ton Arjun, longer and much heavier than the Russian T-90 tanks the government is buying as an interim solution to the Arjun’s delays, has poor operational mobility, the Army official said.

India in 2001 signed a deal with Russia’s Uralvagonzavod State Enterprise to procure 310 T-90s. So far, about 180 partially assembled tanks have been delivered and the remaining 130 will be built under license at Indian facilities.

The Army official said India urgently needs to accelerate T-72 modernization to a rate of around 50 each year.

The Defence Ministry official noted the government already is upgrading around 300 T-72s with a new 125 gun, a more powerful engine, mounted land navigation systems, nuclear, biological and chemical protection equipment, laser warning systems, thermal imaging systems, night-vision devices and frequency-hopping radios.

Defense News Special Reports Section

That's just screwed up! Their in worse shape than the Pak Army if its true!

ooooooooooooooo bhenssssssssssssssssssssssss

Ouch! Indian article finally admits "inferiority complex"

Basically cancel away the 126 fighter deal, and probably reduce the Sukhoi deal.

Many would fail to admitt but even the LCA may not be produced, not even the planned 40.Nice article thoug.

It would be the smartest thing to do if the Indians want to get a large and high tech arms industry started. I am pretty unsure of PAF buying those F-16's because it's a lot of $$$ but when I look at the Indians, I'm like, "If Pakistan had money like India, like hell we would be spending on foreign arms and equipment. Like f*cking hell."

link please!

oh yeah, we'd like a link plz...

however if this article is genuine, it raises a lot of eyebrows within Indias MoD.

bura haal hai.........the veggie dhotis should invest less time faking encounters in Kashmir and invest more time in doing "WORK"

Defense News

Special Reports Section

Kalam’s banana republic

Wrap science in the tricolour and you legitimise mediocrity

To be fair to Dr A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, it is possible that the same gig could be spun around his predecessor or, possibly, about his successors as well. ‘‘Why,’’ goes the question, ‘‘Is Dr Kalam’s DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) a banana republic?’’

‘‘Because whenever the armed forces ask for a new weapon system, he and the DRDO say, humko yeh banana hai, humne yeh banaya hai, hum yeh bana sakte hain (we should make this, we have already made this, we can make this) and so on...’’

Then, the armed forces can wait on forever while the DRDO carries on merrily, a banana republic thriving on ‘‘banana hai-banayenge’’ promises, accountable to none and hailed as a great national reservoir of scientific achievement by a media that doesn’t know its backside from its elbow and politicians who couldn’t care less. Two of the biggest weapons development projects undertaken by the DRDO, Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) and Main Battle Tank (MBT) are at least a decade adrift. And even if you do not judge the DRDO by its performance on these two, please replay the tapes of the past year’s Republic Day parade and see which weapon systems displayed have the DRDO patent. Then you will know what the armed forces are complaining about.

There are some achievements, the sonar which the navy loves, a new communication network, a limited series of radars, Lakshya, the target drone and, of course, the Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) which, though rather lowly on international technology scale, is vital because this particular sector has been so throttled by sanctions for more than a decade. But overall, for a scientific establishment that consumes 5.6 per cent of the overall defence budget, this success list is like, well, a few miserable bananas.

In these ‘jai vigyan’ days, when re-engineering of the 1950s generation liquid-fuel missiles is passed off as breakthrough rocket science, anybody who doesn’t salute the swadeshi scientist runs the risk of being called anti-national.

That figure of 5.6 per cent too is fallacious. Since our armed forces support a huge and wasteful establishment what is left for modernisation after paying salaries, overheads and operational costs is no more than 30 per cent. The DRDO’s Rs 3,200 crore-plus is a neat 15 per cent of this. The forces say all they get for sparing so much is a few prototypes of system this-or-that and some minor systems that actually function. Further that, because the DRDO keeps saying they can/will make this or that it becomes impossible to import essentially needed systems in time, leaving the forces inadequate, if not vulnerable, in crucial areas. The instances they quote are the MBT, attack helicopters, unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), ECMs and ECCMs (electronic counter measures and electronic counter-counter measures), shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles and so on. On each one, the DRDO has an argument. But the fact is that the armed forces haven’t got any of these in time, leading to skewed planning, cost overruns, budgetary allocations being returned unused (last year the defence forces returned Rs 4,000 crore, in the past they have even invested in public sector bonds money they could not utilise for modernisation).

ABOVE all, it results in dangerous technology gaps vis-a-vis the smaller, swifter and more pragmatic rivals. Both, the air force and the army today acknowledge that the Pakistanis have an edge over them in jamming, electronic counter measures, radar coverage and anti-aircraft missiles. Even their individual soldiers are better armed — better helmets, boots, kit-bags, personal weapons, wireless sets and so on. I am not betraying any secrets by speaking the truth because this is exactly what so many responsible generals and air marshals have been saying since Kargil. In most cases, armed forces say, they knew what they wanted, even had the budget, but were held back as the DRDO said the systems could be developed indigenously. Once that claim is put forward, no one dares to question it.

In these ‘jai vigyan’ days, when re-engineering of the 1950s generation liquid-fuel missiles is passed off as breakthrough rocket science, anybody who doesn’t salute the swadeshi scientist runs the risk of being called an import lobbyist, a foreign-stooge, anti-national. In public, therefore, every chief swears by indigenisation. In private, he bitches and whines about not being able to import ‘‘what I need, today’’. Take the more obvious case of MBT and LCA. In the past 15 years I haven’t met a single Army or IAF chief who privately expressed any faith in the systems. (but Hindutva Brigade was so proud of these systems!) Most actually speak of these derisively. Yet, in public, each one has held forth proudly, hailing these ‘achievements’ and saying how keenly the forces are looking forward to inducting these. The uncharitable corollary obviously is that each one knows it is not going to happen in his time, so why risk questioning popular wisdom?

The scientists have some valid arguments. The armed forces keep on changing their qualitative requirements each time the chief changes. The forces say, what can they do if battlefield technologies and doctrines change so rapidly? Can they accept a system they asked for a decade earlier?

Scientists say sanctions block their access to crucial components, chips, even hardware so they cannot hybridise quickly. Why, then, not be realistic, and develop only what you can? Further, that we are too impatient in India with our investments in research. We want our returns too quickly whereas Pfizer and Dupont invest in a hundred projects and if a Viagra or a Kevlar works out, it pays back several times over. But are our defence scientists doing such original breakthrough research? If you are only developing a tank or a gun to internationally current specifications it cannot be confused with original research, its failure rates and payback in case you stumble upon a Viagra. Finally, the scientists complain that the country’s engineering/science base is very, very poor. Our industry has a woeful record on R&D. It is caught in the licenced-production trap. It has not even designed an original moped engine. How can you then expect us to work wonders so quickly? Why, then, is DRDO spending crores trying to design engines for the MBT and the LCA? Why can’t it be realistic, and focus in areas of indigenous strengths like metallurgy and electronics? The engines for both systems, in any case, are being bought.

THE problem is, DRDO can never say no. And the reason it cannot is rooted in a great, phoney national tradition of confusing science with nationalism that goes back to Nehru. Pokharan, then, is called a great scientific achievement rather than a demonstration of national resolve to assert nuclear weapons power status, boldly defying the threat of sanctions. The launch of one GSLV which places one crooked satellite about as close to its orbit as a DTC bus comes to its stop is supposed to make us a world space power. (a Super Power too, according to some Fanatic Hindu Nuts!)

This week the army announced it was phasing out the ‘indigenous’ Vijayanta after three decades of ‘glorious’ service. My reading of military history may be hazy but if the Vijayanta fought any glorious battles or even figured in any frontline strike formations ever, I am willing to be corrected. The cutting edge of our armour was still the Soviet T-series tanks (T-54/55/72 which included some reconditioned, second-hand imports from Poland) while we issued postage stamps on the Vijyanta which, too, was a licenced production from Vickers! The great national, political consensus on science is as self-delusory as it is illiterate. We must learn to question it now. Just as we are no longer squeamish vis-a-vis the farce called Nehruvian socialism.

Science is rational, transparent business. It should be open to competition and peer review. It can only work that way. Wrap it in the tricolour, and you legitimise mediocrity and lack of accountability. Politicians love this. Every scientific ‘achievement’ is painted as a national success story. Then they issue commemorative stamps, make emotional speeches, hand out national honours. We are, not surprisingly, a remarkable country which has given so few mainstream national honours to original scientific researchers while almost anybody who has been anything in our space, nuclear and defence research establishments has a shelf loaded with these. How many Padma Bhushans have we given to fellow Indians for winning worldwide patents? But we give higher honours by the rote for defence, space and nuclear ‘research’. We consciously confuse development or reverse engineering of standard weapons systems with science. Then we are surprised if the best of our ‘original’ scientists refuse to join DRDO and go to work overseas. Of course, that never stopped us from painting even their American passports in the tricolour once they win their Nobels.

Postscript:

The forces have always had jokes about DRDO. When V.S. Arunachalam (now running a famous metallurgy lab at Carnegie-Mellon) headed DRDO, the LCA, was sometimes called Last Chance for Arunachalam. Hopefully, the acronym won’t return to haunt Kalam’s successor now, V.K. Atre.

The Indian Express

MODS please pin this thread !!!

Saeed Khans article is the best.

can u plzz give the link of the above article ... urgently needed .. thanks in advance

WASALAM

Salam,



Blessings.

I can't stop laughing!!!

Thats a good way to acheive nationalism with over exagerated propaganda.

Salam,

Brother, i think "propaganda" is from the enemy. From the national newspapers, it is called "healthy criticism".

If these stories had appeared in Jang or Dawn, it would have a possibility of being a 'propaganda'. But they are from "local" indian sources.

Blessings.

That huge article was like 4 + years old(indian exp.) . want me to list what has been substantiated from then onwards. I am not an ultra nationalistic indian 'I agree that the ARJUN IS A FAILURE. But no need to say that about the LCA or pianka or other stuff. We as a country couldn't even make safety pins 50 years ago, but i guess we have come a long way from then , the fact still remains that the defence industry has to mature. These delays aren't apolcalyptic as they are thought to be.
come on i can give you links to a million items that have been productionised by the DRDO. I always feel that such criticism and transperancy is needed as far as PSU's are concerned. AGNI 1 and 2 have been inducted so has prithvi, akash and nag have been completed (finally , phew!) ARJUN still sucks though , the LCA is something i can be proud of even thoough it took a long time. As far as pak having better electronic systems , jammers.etc you bet just check out what has been done and you'll find out, I guess nobody wants to talk about samyukta.

Well ,

Arjun is not failure , but it didn't able to compete T90 which Indian Army made the Benchmark to test it . What is the Benchmark of you ? Chinese Product ?

Indian DRDO made Helicopter and making LCA with engines and Radar ,making AOA missile etc.

Look at you , You can;t even know how to design a plane , JF-17 Chinese design, Italien radar,, and Chinese Avanoics ? what your contribution in JF-17?

Your Tank also designed by Chinese and your missile also Came from China and Korea ???

Your Nuclear Technology also came from Black market , stolen design and From chinese Help ??? Its open and lots of Evidence is avaliable against these.

your Economy runs on mercy of European and US

Ok ,,,,,,,so What you knoe about Technology and Industrial things ?

You dont even know how to make car and its engines?

YOu know FACT eben Chinese motor bike didnt able to pass Indian Pollution Control Norms, this is what Chinese Quality is.

Before laughfing look at you and yourself ....

lol Jang or Dwan can't publish anything against Govt., they either their office was ranskaked or they will killed or will be framed in some offence

It is India where lot of freedom was given................

i know india has got too much of free...doom thas why u people r dayin wid HIV ,i think ur government suld give u more freedoooom.

Salam,



PAKFA, brother i think you are not talking facts here. If you wanna have a meaningful conversation, you must have your facts streightened out. If you hate what we have, you can't learn!!

Its funny because you are comming from India to tell me that Pakistan does not have freedom of press! I, who have lived in Pakistan for a lifetime, am telling you that you can put pretty much every thing (including healthy criticism) on papers today in Pakistan! The only things you can't put is pretty much similar in every country, like nudity, like religious discrimination etc. So lets not get off-the-topic here.

I have a respect for your opinion, but you should do some homework before putting agressive comments. I don't fight over petty little things brother!

Moving back, i think the reason why you don't hear such criticism from newspapers regarding our defence research institutions is because they are very strict in their decepline. There might be some corruption, which even the U.S is not transparent to, but overall, their performance is overwhelming and goals are focused.

On the other hand, you see DRDO's projects and their ambitions; its just a painful story. Too much politics, and too much power projection. Pride should come with performance.

I have a respect for India as a country, but i would recommend to you brother that you change the way you talk on this forum! You don't prove any body wrong or something. So stay away from such flamethrowing habbits.

I do have observed you over a period of time. And i am convinced that you need to overhaul your self, your goals and what you want out of life. Empty pride on your part has been a source of brutal argumentations in many of the threads on this forum.

Get organized brother.

Blessings.

Raja,

Are you saying that there are no HIV infected people in PAK???

Rest is Peace,

Muttawa

none to "0" in pakistan .some cases have been reported but not as much we can see in india.

exactly bro

and why exactly would a so called iraninian care about HIV/AIDS in bhindia?

indians inferiority complex
china has nothing to do with DRDO's failure

Unhappy with Arjunk, Army banks on Bhishma (T-90), Ajeya (T-72)

NEW DELHI: Not too happy with Arjun at the moment, the Army is planning to face future wars with Bhishma and Ajeya. No, the 1.13-million strong force is not going batty and thinking in terms of bows and arrows. Instead, that's its gameplan for main-battle tanks.

Arjun, of course, is the much-vaunted, indigenously -developed tank. With the Army still doubtful about its "battle-worthiness" and "operational mobility", the tank is now undergoing fresh "confirmative user trials".

"The Arjun project, however, helped us to bargain with the Russians to bring down the price for the T-90S (christened Bhishma) tanks. Moreover, the project spin-offs like explosive reactive armour and laser warning system are being used to upgrade the old warhorses, the T-72 M1 (Ajeya) tanks," said an officer.

So, the Army will face armoured battles with a mix of T-90S and T-72 tanks. Unlike the cumbersome 58.5-tonne Arjun, the T-90S and T-72 weigh 46.5 and 41.5 tonnes, respectively.

"But we have not totally crossed out the Arjuns (the Army was forced to order 124 of these tanks in 2000) from our battle plans," said an officer.

"All this will be enough to take on the Pakistani T-80UD (acquired from Ukraine), upgraded T-59 and Al Khalid (developed with Chinese collaboration) tanks," he added.

Having received 120 T-90S tanks directly from Russia, the Army is now in the process of inducting 190 more such tanks which will be assembled in batches at the Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi. The plan thereafter is to begin licensed production by 2007-2008.

The ambitious project to upgrade the entire T-72 fleet — the backbone of India's armoured might with over 1,700 tanks — has also gathered steam now. "The different upgradation packages, with some Israeli, Polish and Russian collaboration, should be completed by 2009," he said.

The upgradation includes new auto-land navigation systems, engines for enhanced mobility, NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) protection systems, thermal imager fire control and image intensifier night sights. Around 250 T-72s, for instance, have been fitted with the Polish Drawa-T fire control systems.

TOI

If 124 Arjunks are enough to handle all our MBTs then why buy more tanks?

India to acquire 400 more tanks from Russia

India is expected to buy 400 more T-90S main battle tanks (MBT) from Russia under a deal likely to be signed soon, a media report said here today.

"In June, the state-run Uralvagonzavod enterprise will obtain a major T-90S production contract and India would receive upto 400 MBTs worth USD 900 million to USD 1 billion," financial daily 'Vedomosti' said.

Although Russia's arms exporting agency Rosoboronexport declined to comment, a source close to the Federal Service for Military and Technical Cooperation said that Indo-Russian talks on supplying 400 T-90S tanks have made "considerable headway and the contract was likely to be signed soon".

In February 2001, India had signed a USD 700 million deal with Russia for the purchase of 310 T-90S MBTs, of which Uralvagonzavod had delivered 124 tanks, while remaining 186 were assembled at Avadi Heavy Vehicles Factory near Chennai from the kits supplied by the Russian defence company.

The transfer of technology contract was completed last year.

Deputy Director of the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, Konstantin Makiyenko told the daily that India wants to acquire another 400 T-90S tanks "to help restore balance of forces", after Pakistan, Ukraine and Saudi Arabia launched joint production of Al-Khalid MBT-2000 tanks.

Unlike standard Russian versions, the custom-made T-90S that India has been buying feature French-made equipment, including thermal imaging systems.

OI

Given the current impotence of the DRDO, Indian soldiers and the Banana Republic need Viagra more than Kevlar!

I think there are few problems with this forum which is why ,I a full time member find it extremely boring and verbose and visit this forum very rarely
1)Most forum members post ages old news reports and then enter a pointless debate juxtaposing it in current context just like this article which is 4 years old
2)Even when topics are current,most members do not present proper facts,most pakis inevitably stoop to aids and indias population(even though their population growth rate is higher than indias) and most indians counter it with equally juvenile comments on paks economy.
Let me get some facts straight
1)this article is 4 years old,since then both akash and trishul have been inducted and nag has entered user trials.Agni 1 and prithvi is with army and agni2 has already entered serial production.LCA is all set to enter iaf by2010 thanks to israelis.
2Both LCA AND ARJUN were attempts by drdo to build latest platforms without building older versions and hence cost overruns were bound to happen.In case of lca indians realized the need to take israeli and russian help before it was too late and in case of arjun this realization came a bit too late
3Indian journos are amateurs when it comes to defence,a fact stated by most eminent defence experts in India.The factual content of this artice could be judged when author made the ridiculous statement of pak missile prog being a decade ahead of india,which is a laughable statement since it is impossible to measure tech gap in case of missile tech because of their secretive deployment process
Havin said that u have to say DRDO is inefficient though not ineffective and could do much better.
peace

Quite easily the best two things in this article. Let the bindis bring AIDS in DRDO storeis.After all they need to have something to cover the naked body of bharat mata.

I am not sure it has been posted before. Indians always blame pak military for selling to US. just look at the size of US and Pakistan and now look at the size of Israel and India. India has sold its two cent democracy to israel. and it has been exposed by none other than its 50 year old buddy Russia.

Parliamentary Supervision of Defence

June 06, 2005

Vinod Vedi

The Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence has finally decided that there should be some accountability in the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) which is entrusted with the task of taking the nation through the minefield of licensed-production of foreign weaponry to self-reliance in the short term and self-sufficiency in some of the major weapon systems in the long term, and that the nation should move more surely to self-reliance at least.

It has correctly focused on the Kaveri engine for the Light Combat Aircraft and the induction of more “indigenous” Arjun tanks into the armoured corps in the next decade. Yet its advice is cursory at the most. In the case of the Arjun tank if more are inducted into the army the more we will be dependent on the German company MTU for maintenance and spare parts for the engine that powers it on account of the fact that the indigenous engine that was supposed to do the job has been killed in its cradle because the DRDO was unable to make it produce the horsepower required to make this particularly heavy tank perform the required manoeuvres in battlefield conditions in the plains and desert territory where it would be deployed.

The T-72 tank had to be bought from the Russians precisely because the indigenous engine for the Arjun was unable to produce the 1450 hp that would make the tank viable and the project had spilled into cost and time over-runs that were not acceptable.

The point the watchdog committee of Parliament seems to have missed is that no nation can aspire to become self-reliant or self-sufficient in any weapon system unless it is able to design and develop an engine that will produce enough thrust to take the load of the weapon platform and its battlefield requirement of ammunition and still have a little extra to be able to execute swift manoeuvres on the battlefield.

What it should be asking is what happened the “indigenous engine” that was supposed to power the Arjun tank? Was it so useless that there was no hope to revive it either through a sustained national effort or through a joint development programme either with the Russians from whom we bought the T series of tanks or from the Germans themselves for co-production and joint marketing?

That is where it would be interesting to see if accountability can be enforced. The progenitor of the tank project, former scientific adviser to the Minister of Defence, who held out great promise for the “indigenous engine” is now a resident of a US university and it will be impossible for India to secure his extradition because of his momentous contribution to making India’s prestigious indigenous projects –the Arjun tank and the Light Combat Aircraft – totally dependent on foreign engines for being viable.

It was his concept that foreign engines should be imported to “prove” the viability of the indigenous weapons platform even as developmental work on the indigenous engine would continue to prove that the chassis and gun systems of the tank and the fuselage and subsystems of the LCA were fit to be series produced in Indian factories.

There were voices raised at the time that in case the local engines do not produce the required thrust-to-weight ratio to make both the projects viable then the nation will become dangerously dependent on the foreign engines in both its most prestigious and important projects because of the large numbers involved.

That is exactly what happened to the tank engine and is now threatening to happen to the Kaveri engine that is to power the LCA. Therefore, simultaneous with its insistence that the Arjun tank be inducted in larger numbers than the two regiments that have already been ordered by the Indian army the Parliamentary Standing Committee on Defence would do the nation a great service if it orders a performance audit of the defunct engine project and examine whether it can be revived.

Joint development with any well-established foreign engine manufacturer would be a better option so that the next generation of the Arjun tank can be powered with an engine that will be able to cater to the battlefield requirements of the next decade instead of insisting on the induction of larger numbers of a tank that is totally dependent on an engine that is totally foreign and thus amenable to be used to politically manipulate the nation. (I guess this should add 10 more years to this project!)

In this context it needs to be recalled that Germany which produces the MTU engine for the Arjun tank has proved to be a thoroughly unreliable partner in such a vital sector as national defence. In the case of the HDW hunter-killer submarines bought at about the same time as the engines for the tanks the Germans breached the contract by supplying the designs to the Government of South Africa which at the time was an apartheid (superiority of the white race) regime against which India had conducted a sustained campaign to get it to change its racist policy. And, of course there was that problem with kickbacks paid by the Germans to an agent to help seal the deal.

The result was that India did not complete the project of producing more of the HDW-designed submarines in an Indian dockyard. India’s indigenous submarine project – nuclear powered no less – is also languishing and it remains to be seen whether the UPA government will go ahead with the NDA-initiated deal to buy the French Scorpene submarine which some of its members had opposed when it was first mooted.

The Scorpene’s claim to fame is in its new propulsion technology known as air-independent propulsion (AIP) which makes it possible for the submarine to remain submerged for a marginally longer period than a diesel-electric one. The French have sold the technology to Pakistan for the submarines that it is manufacturing at the Ormara naval dockyard west of Karachi.

The Standing Committee would again be doing the nation a double service if it demands a performance audit of the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project and insists that whatever financial or technological inputs that it now requires are provided to it (here too foreign joint development can be useful to kick-start the project) so that a nuclear powered submarine can be produced within the country in the timeframe that it would require to acquire the Scorpene submarine from France which would not be less than five years.

This is because a nuclear-powered submarine is a “true submersible” and can circumnavigate the globe without ever rising to the surface and would be worth its weight in gold.

Coming back to the Kaveri engine for the Light Combat Aircraft if it never sees the light of day or even if it eventually is fit enough to be fitted into the LCA in 2012, for the next seven years India will be totally dependent on the American General Electric F-404 engines which have, thanks to the former scientific adviser to the Minister of Defence who is currently enjoying American patronage, graduated from being needed only to “prove” the first 11 prototypes to becoming an integral part of the serial production of the LCA for the next seven years at least.

US strategists and destabilization specialists believe that it is through the supply of aircraft that a nation can be turned into a client. Thus the GE engine coupled with the offer of F-16 and F-18 aircraft raises visions of an India far from becoming a “strategic partner” to the world’s only superpower but surely ending up a sophisticated banana republic because nearly all its indigenous military equipment projects that were intended to take it into self-reliance were suborned from within.

It bring to mind the words of American arms control specialist Dr Fred Ikle that there are enough Indians bent on turning India around to supporting American perspectives for the region and the world by 2005 or 2020.

AT

soup-r-poor I mean superpower India!

Well have to give one thing to Indian media its very critical and leaves no stone unturned. A rare and great asset to have for any nation.

Only effective if the government takes action to the criticism directed at it.

So why wont you guys accept any indian sources as news on this forum?Negative critisicm is accepted but positive news about India isnt? Bunch of hypocrites lol.

Well thast right ., Indian media is free .....and independent..

Well before critizing other LOOK at your Patner ....China didn't able to develop its own engine for JF-17 and leased Russian Engines ?/ remember ......

Making engine is not like making a Ak-47 ........how mnay countries have abiliy to ake engines ??/

Its requires lots of R&D but when the technologies learned it will make one step ahead ........

India is trying to make all these things but look at you.......??

Eye opening article to say the least.

India's defence disasters

Brian Cloughley

"The BBC defence analyst says India has devoted considerable resources to increasing its self-sufficiency in weaponry but there have been some doubts about the effectiveness of some programmes". (BBC: August 6).You can say that again, because most of the projects are disasters, but there are lessons to be learned by other countries from India's problems with trying to make weapons. On August 6 India's defence science chief, Mr Abdul Kalam, said that "efforts are being made to carry out the test flight of the light combat aircraft (LCA) this year." This is interesting, because LCA development began in 1983, with the first flight planned for 1990 and production for the Indian Air Force scheduled for 1994. The plane was supposed to replace the MiG-21, but India's chief of air staff (CAS) said on August 3 that 125 of these ancient aircraft are to be upgraded by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. This was not announcing anything new, because the upgrade was due to finish in 1996, but, in the words of the CAS, "delivery was somewhat rescheduled." No date has been set for completion of the 'new' project, and nobody knows when the LCA will enter service. If test flights go well, production could begin in about five years, by which time the LCA might be valuable, but only as an antique.

Nobody knows, either, how much development has cost, although the expert in the field, Dr Chris Smith, estimated in 1994 that Rs1670 crores had gone down the drain by then. There is talk of a carrier-borne version, but this is as optimistic as are India's plans to build an aircraft carrier itself. The entire LCA exercise is futile, but in spite of murmurs from parliamentary committees it appears that no politician has the courage to pull the plug on this costly folly. The same goes for the Arjun tank, whose development began in 1972. In March, India's defence minister (who, if the Indian armed forces have any luck, will be replaced after the elections in September) stated that 15 Arjuns had been given to the army in 1993-94 for trials and that since "these were found acceptable," an order for 124 tanks had been placed with the Avadi factory. After almost 30 years of testing and modification, the army is prepared to accept only 124 Arjuns--enough to equip two of India's 60 tank regiments, given training, technical and replacement requirements--and is now trialling Russian T-90 tanks, for which an order for about 300 is expected.

The order had better be placed, and soon, because the Arjunk does not work, and one's heart goes out to the members of the army's Armoured Corps who will have to operate it, given the dubious fire control system and many other failings. So much money has gone to Arjun that the rebuild programme for the old Russian T-72 tanks has stalled. Many of these workhorses lack spares and are not fit for battle; hundreds of them have not been modified to modern standards and are simply not a credible weapon. The Arjun story is a sad one, and according to foreign sources the programme has cost a billion dollars—so far--and this excludes much assistance from Germany, the Netherlands, Israel, France, Britain and the US. India's Armoured Corps is not alone in being deprived of decent equipment, as the infantry arm has suffered grievously from mismanagement and lack of resources. There is no lack of professional and gallant leadership, for there are lots of good leaders amongst Indian Army officers, at all levels, but they are not responsible for poor equipment, inadequate clothing and lousy ration packs.

Last week, Prime Minister Vajpayee and his defence minister "asked the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to accord highest priority to mountain warfare technology." I could hardly credit this report in The Times of India--not only because India has had nine mountain divisions (some 100,000 men) operational for decades, nor that there is an organisation called the Indo-Tibetan Border Police, about 30,000 strong, involved in high-altitude scouting and security, but because India occupied the Siachen Glacier fifteen years ago and has since then had thousands of troops actually practicing mountain warfare at its most difficult and dangerous. How is DRDO supposed to improve 'mountain warfare technology'? It seems they couldn't make a mouse-trap if they were given the drawings.

DRDO's 5.56 mm rifle is hopeless, and soldiers want AKs or some other reliable weapons. Most still carry heavy 7.62 mm rifles, copied from a western design of the 1960s, but it would be cheaper, as well as technically more satisfactory, to replace them with AKs, from whatever source, than to proceed with making the inadequate DRDO gadget.

It seems, however, as with the Arjun and the LCA, that it is necessary to press on with a useless bit of kit because it is home-made. National pride seems to be the main factor, but it is questionable if that justifies hazarding young soldiers' lives.

The list of dud projects is long and unimpressive. The jet training aircraft, the advanced light helicopter, the Nishant remotely piloted vehicle (Israeli RPVs have been bought), the lancer light attack helicopter, the airborne early-warning system (the test plane crashed after the rotor-dome fell off), the artillery control system, the unsatisfactory missiles--one could go on. But there is no reason for satisfaction on the part of anyone else about these expensive disasters. After all, current US and British main battle tanks required decades of evolution. (It was problem with the US Abrams that led to Zia's trip to Bahawalpur, and his death; and the British Challenger II tank needed 150 hull improvements, alone, at various stages). The Chinese nuclear submarine is dangerous (to the Chinese), and basic faults in Australia's Collins Class submarine are costing the taxpayer
billions to rectify. Then there was the photograph circulating among defence attaches in Islamabad a few years ago, showing Nawaz Sharif's head poking out of the driver's hatch of a Khalid 'indigenous' tank, with a bubble coming from his mouth containing the words "I can't reach the pedals."

There is no room for complacency on the part of anybody who makes, or tries to make, complicated weapons--but India's case is much worse than any other, and there are lessons to be learned from the incompetence and inflexibility of New Delhi's approach. When warning signals sounded, they should have been listened to. Failing projects should have been scrapped, but national pride dictated that more and more money would be thrown at them.

The result has been that in spite of the waste of countless billions of dollars, home-designed systems still do not work, and even more money has to be spent on obtaining foreign equipment which it would have been much more sensible to buy in the first place. Let others do the R and D and iron out the problems, then buy the proven equipment--once it is in service of the producing country (this proviso is very important). Most countries cannot afford a sophisticated arms industry. Copy and manufacture, by all means; but development from scratch is an expensive, risky and all-too-often unsuccessful business.

Why dont you post some articles from the 1980s .
Let me give u the current status of these projects
a)prithvi and agni - in service
b) ALH - in service and export orders received
c) LCA - 3 prototypes flying
d) mig 21 upg - first batch delivered options fo another 126 on cards.
e) Nishant - in service adn 100 flights completed.
f) Lancer - in service
g) lakshya - in service
h) Akash and nag- development over undergoing intensive user trials
i) T-90s - inducted and manufacturing and overhaul facilities available.
- radars- several inducted
- Samyukta - inducted
- naval sonars and radars - several peices ordered
- Airfoce radars - several ordered and inducted

I can give u proof of all thiks and more with pics .why do you post articles of little importance now.

Brilliant..that means you guys fixed all the bugs.. good for you.

india has the manpower to develope lots of equipment but to say it that it did it without foreign assistance is a joke. thanks to your politics and propaganda as a world democracy and being born enemy of muslim world you get alot of backdoor assistance from USA, ISRAEL ,USSR, GERMANY, UK ETC. thanks to microsoft and other international electronic companies your so called scientists have been stealing others ideas and work. at least the pakistanis do not hide about getting assistance from other outside sources. i am not a pakistani and i work for a foreign company out of pakistan.

Built with a lot of Russian help. Go google it if you don't believe me.


Can't believe you mentioned that. Try comparing it to Jf-17, check the globalsecurity page on the Jf-17, the Jf-17 is SUPERIOR to the LCA. It is waay behind schedue. Kaveri recently failed a test in Russia.


May I ask you what the upgrades do? Add more advanced RUSSIAN radars, add more advanced ISRAELI avonics and fire control, get the RUSSIANS to modify it for you such that they could fire R-77s and R-73s.

If anything, this only shows that India would rather buy 400 T-90s than invest more money on the problem-plagued Arjun.



I haven't heard of them. Could you give me more information on those other things?

Tell Me Boys Whens Pakistan having the NEXT international AERO PAK military air/missle show where the worlds top powers can attend and see your prowess.....

Cause frm where i sit its only india with AEREO INDIA that can show case these achievements....

.Wheres Pakistans Multi billion dollar software industry.....OOPS i,m sorry its india that earns $17 billion a year frm IT outsourcing and software support not Pakistan who make wat $40 dollars ayear.....

JF17 is that made in Pakistan DIDN,T REALISE chengdu was a Pakistani COMPANY...

Grow up kids denying wat your neighbours are doing is not going change anything......

We are talking about DRDO's failures. Why are u comparing everything to Pakistan?

Because he's Rahul.

Go to the MOD site and check the annual reports.
Its not that I am a jingoist and will just say anything.
www.mod.nic.in/reports

You guys always look for something negative.
let me provide you a comprehensive list with proof.

Samyukta:
source
click
HYDERABAD, JAN. 19. In a landmark event aimed at strengthening the country's defence security, the first block of `Samyukta,' an indigenous, state-of-the-art Integrated Electronic Warfare (IEW) system was presented by the President, A.P.J. Abdul Kalam, to the Chief of the Army Staff, Gen. N.C. Vij, in the presence of the Defence Minister, George Fernandes, here on Monday.

With this technological accomplishment in the electronic field, India has joined a select band of nations which possess this kind of world class system.

Hailing as a "fantastic job" the combined effort of the defence scientists, Army personnel, public sector units and private industry in developing the system which incidentally was sanctioned when Mr. Kalam was the Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister, the President said "India has got the capability to design, develop and produce integrated electronic warfare system to meet the mission requirement. This system is uniquely configured for the frequencies from High Frequency to Millimetre wave for reconnaissance, direction finding and position fixing, listing, prioritising and jamming of adversaries' emissions."

Mr. Kalam handed over the first block of 26 vehicles to Gen. Vij. `Samyuktha' is a joint venture undertaken by the Defence Electronics Research Laboratory (DLRL) in a consortium approach with other agencies. It is mounted on ground mobile vehicles and covers HF to Millimetre wave frequencies range. The Coverage of the electronic spectrum of frequencies is done in two segments — communication segment and non-communication segment — which are finally integrated with the master control centre (MCC) through appropriate transmission stations.

It is capable of handling both ground-based and airborne threats. It has the capability to intercept, detect, search, identify and locate complex communication and radar signals. It monitors and analyses communication and radar activity across Forward Edge of the Battle Area (FEBA) and many other sophisticated features. Once deployed, the system has operational frontal coverage of 150/70 km.

Mr. Kalam also praised the team effort displayed in realising the system in a relatively short time, in spite of many denials. Now that the basic building blocks were indigenously available, user driven multiple systems could be evolved, he added. With India graduating in the development of electronic warfare systems, he said the time had come to take major decisions so that we could maintain our competence level and ensure provision of contemporary future systems to the armed forces. In this direction, he suggested that the Defence Research and Development Organisation consider conceptualisation of future systems with flexible architecture which are networked across the services.

The other suggestions include the need to create a world-class high quality infrastructure at Hyderabad by BEL to meet the ever increasing requirements of the services for the EW systems; DRDO and EW production agency should visualise the futuristic EW scenario through comprehensive simulation studies and work on demonstrable systems for user evaluation, specification modification and deployment, need to create a dedicated EW Quality Assurance agency and ensure meticulous software maintenance.

In view of our "Doctrine of no first use," he said that it was essential to study how synchronised action between EW systems of the Army (Samyukta), Naval EW (Sangraha) and Air Force EW (Tempest) could prevent the entry of warheads in our territory.

Stating that future technologies for national security would be required to be developed and deployed in the areas of strategic electronics, strategic aeronautics and strategic astronautics, he said that almost each and every strategic technology would be dual purpose in that they served concurrently the needs of economic development of the nation.

Mr. Fernandes described the EW system as a weapon which would be useful not only during war but at peace time too. He said the guns had fallen silent on India's borders with both Pakistan and China.

He expressed the wish that the situation should remain like this forever. While there was peace on the one hand, there was the problem of insurgency on the other and stressed the need for remaining alert always. He also said that such sophisticated systems should be exported to friendly countries.

The Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister, V.K. Aatre, talking to reporters earlier, termed it as major milestone. He said that it was the largest electronics project of the DRDO.

Only a few other countries possessed such a sophisticated system. "It implies how we can dominate the electromagnetic spectrum during a battle."

He explained how it helped in jamming the enemy's communication and other systems and provided an upper hand.

He said that each system of `Samyuktha' would consist of 145 vehicles of five blocks — three communication and two non-communication segments.

The entire system would be ready for deployment by the end of 2005. He declined to divulge the number of systems required by the Army.

Replying to another question, he said that the Agni-3 missile would be launched by this year-end.

The DLRL was designing and developing the EW systems for the Army and Navy and Defence Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) for the Air Force.

Expressing his happiness over the Army acquiring the sophisticated system, Gen. Vij described it as a dream come true for the Army.

SATHI:

click

Nishant:

click

IJT:

completed 100 th flight at paris - check anywhere

List of more items which have been a huge hit and are in service:

• Pilotless Target Aircraft –LAKSHYA
(aerial target practice system) in service with all three wings
source :
CLick
• Radar Warning Receiver (RWR) for
MiG 23 aircraft– TRANQUIL
• Radar Warning Receiver and Self
Protection Jammer (RWR & SPJ) for MiG
aircraft – TEMPEST
• CATCH - An airborne Signal Intelligence
Systems
• Aircraft Arrester Barrier
• Aircraft Weapon Trolley – BHEEMA
• Relocatable Balloon Barage System
• Parachutes for various types of
Aircrafts
• Surface-to-surface Tactical Battlefield
Missile : PRITHVI
• Surface-to-surface Missile : AGNI-I
and AGNI-II
• Main Battle Tank : ARJUN
• Multi-barrel Rocket System -
PINAKA (waiting for indent)
• Armoured Engineer Recce Vehicle
(AERV) for crossing of water obstacles
• Bridge Layer Tank on T-72 chassis
• Bridge Assault Mechanically
Launched: SARVATRA
• Mat Ground Surfacing, a track-way
expedient for smooth movement in
marshy terrain, shallow water and soft
soil
• Containerised Operation Theatre
Complex and Wards on Wheels
• Mobile Decontamination System for
decontaminating Nuclear, Biological and
Chemical (NBC) agents and personnel,
equipment and terrain
• Muting system for deactivating
remotely controlled explosive device –
SAFARI [Mk-I]
• Remotely Piloted Vehicle RPV –
NISHANT (for aerial surveillance)
• Bulk secrecy equipment with high
grade digital secrecy : SANSAR
• Avalanche Victim Detector
• Meals-ready-to-eat (MREs) etc.
• Combat Improved T-72 tank –
AJEYA
• Data Concentrator
Surface-to-surface Missile Agni-1
101
FINAL 26.9.04
• Battle-Field Surveillance Radar –
Short Range (BFSR-SR )
• Weapon Locating Radar
• Artillery Combat Command and
Control System - SAMVAHAK
• HUMSA – Hull Mounted Sonar
System
• USHUS Sonar System
• Processor Based Moored Mine
(PBMM) and Processor Based Exercise
Mine (PBEM)
• Advanced Torpedos
• SANGRAHA
• Electronic Support Measure (ESM)
System for Kamov/ Chetak Helicopter –
KITE
• ESM System for Kamov/Chetak
Helicopter – EAGLE
• Submarine based ESM – PORPOISE
• MIHIR -Helicopter based dunking
sonar
• NAGAN – Towed Array
Sonar
• SECTEL - Speech Secrecy
Telephone
• Mission Computer (MC)
for Jaguar.
Source:
INDIA: Signature was reportedly imminent near presstime, despite strong Israeli counter-proposals, of a $200 million contract for the long-overdue upgrade of all eight Tupolev Tu-142MEh "Bear F Mod 3" four-turboprop long-range surveillance and ASW/ASuW aircraft operated by Indian naval aviation (INA) since 1985. OAO Tupolev General Designer Igor Shevchuk was quoted as saying that the 2.5 year upgrade of the INA's Tu-142MEh would be undertaken on rotation by 2007 at the original Taganrog aviation production plant in Russia, where almost 100 Bears reportedly were completed by 1994.

Equipment changes in the Tu-142MEh upgrade program include the automated Korshun-K integrated search and targeting attack system, MMS-106 Ladoga magnetic airborne detection (MAD) installation to locate low-noise atomic submarines, and an improved PNK-142M integrated inertial flight and navigation system. Other changes include "Strela-142M" aircraft communications system, the Nerchinsk hydrologic reconnaissance apparatus, Sayana defensive aids system, an automated secure radio communications system and upgrades of the original Leninets Berkut-95 surveillance radar.

With a maximum takeoff weight of 408,855 lbs., the Tu-142 can lift up to 19,500 lbs. of weapons, and the upgrade includes a new control system for dropping up to 240 MGAB-L3 or MGAB-O3 bombs, AT-2M torpedoes, depth-charges and mines. A new Zarechye acoustic system is linked with 44 RGB-15, 10 RGB-25/A and 66 RGB-75 sonobuoys. Zvezda-Strela Kh-35 (AS-20 "Kayak") Harpoon-type anti-shipping missiles may be carried on underwing pylons. Additional weapons capabilities for INA's Tu-142 MEhs and Ilyushin Il-38SDs are planned from integration of the Russo-Indian PJ-10 BrahMos supersonic 150 nm-range rocket/ramjet AShM. Tupolev is believed to be planning the incorporation of some of the INA upgrades in more than 10 TU-142MZ "Bear-Js" currently operated by Russian naval aviation.

Local upgrades also are being considered to extend the operating lives of some 25 IAF Mil Mi-24/34 "Hind D/E" attack helicopters that have operated since 1984. Structural and fatigue investigations are being concluded at the IAF's No. 3 Base Repair Depot (BRD) at Chandigarh, in northern India, to assess the possibility of extending the Mi-24/35 operating lives from 20 to 25 years. Manufacturer's recommendations for these helicopters are for 20 years' calendar life or 3,000 flying hours. As with most military aircraft, much of the fatigue life remains unused by calendar time expiry.

Preliminary recommendations from No. 3 BRD that the "Hinds," which currently equip one IAF Mi-24 squadron and two Mi-35 units, can continue their operational roles for the required period now await IAF Air headquarter approval. Limited avionics and systems upgrades also are planned to improve the helicopters' all-weather delivery capabilities with precision-guided weapons.

Rapid progress also has been reported with the Rs3 billion ($66.23 million) contract received last October by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd. (HAL) for a prototype avionics systems upgrade for application to 20 locally built IAF SEPECAT/BAE Jaguar deep penetration fighters and 17 two-seat Jaguar combat trainers. Originally, the IAF's Jaguar navigation and weapon attack subsystems upgrade was based on British-supplied mission computers, development of which was then cancelled following additional HAL costs. A mainly Indian solution was then sought from the national Defense Avionics Research Establishment (DARE) and the Defense R&D Organization (DRDO), which already were involved with HAL in a similar exercise for the IAF's MiG-27 upgrade.

According to HAL Chairman N.R. Mohanty, the first IAF Jaguar with an indigenous DARE mission computer, which made its successful initial flight on Sept. 29, 2003, was due to complete its preliminary airborne trials in only 15 days. Completion of IAF Jaguar day/night and all-weather avionics fleet installation was expected within two years, for an anticipated program cost of $331 million.
• Mission Computer (MC),
Display Processor (DP) and
RWR for Sukhoi aircraft.


For the remaining stuff it is in the report will post more items in a while.

As far as the LCA vs JF 17 is concerned it may be true that LCA is inferior to the JF 17, but the fact that a country like us has been able to put some thin in the air after 56 years when we imported everything from safety pins is a great thing , same goes for pakistan too.

May be i should have done some more research on the mig 21 upg but wait that was in response to the article from BBC which trashed the upgrade program.

As far as crashes go , this is one area where we have made tremendous improvement in the last two years, attrition rate is at an all time low , primarily due to better overhaul facilities.

I will post a report on other DRDO product soon.

Arjun may be a failure agreed, but wait . look at the spinoffs.

DRDO looking for global technical partner to develop Kaveri engine:

Decision seen as admission that Gas Turbine Research Establishment cannot develop the engine on its own

Ravi Sharma

BANGALORE: The Defence Research and Development Organisation, whose Gas Turbine Research Establishment is developing the Kaveri engine that will power India's Light Combat Aircraft, is actively considering taking on board a global technical partner who will help co-develop the engine.

A high-power committee — comprising the Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister (who is also the Director-General, DRDO); the Chief Controller (Research and Development), DRDO; and the Director, GTRE, among others — has deliberated the proposal, official sources told The Hindu.

DRDO's reasoning is that a global partner with a proven record in combat aircraft engine development will help accelerate the GTRE's long-delayed Kaveri engine programme that started in the late 1980s. According to officials DRDO and GTRE officials, the global tie-up will certainly be "for the betterment and good of the project."

However, the move has surprised many since the DRDO in the past has repeatedly refused to involve outside agencies to help the GTRE accelerate the development of the engine. It had preferred to leave it to the GTRE, even if it meant not being able to develop the engine in time. Military experts view the decision to now take the global route as admission that the GTRE cannot develop the engine on its own.

Mounting costs:

The GTRE has spent Rs. 1,300 crores (US $ 299 Million) on the Kaveri engine project. The Cabinet Committee on Security last December revised the estimate for its future development to Rs. 2,800 crores (US $ 643 Million). But the engine is still not ready for high-altitude flight tests, scheduled to be performed in Russia aboard a Tupolev-16 aircraft. It is also miles away from completing the 8,000 hours of testing necessary to complete the engine development phase.

While most military aviation experts are in favour of the GTRE taking a partner since this is undoubtedly the only way forward for the engine programme, they are critical of the delay in taking the decision. They feel there is no harm in signing an agreement with any one of the handful of companies worldwide — Rolls-Royce (Great Britain), Snecma Moteurs (France), CFM International (United States), General Electric (GE, United States) or Pratt and Whitney (United States), NPO "Saturn" and MMPP Salut (the last two from Russia) — that posses the technology to develop combat aircraft engines, just as long they are equal partners in the funding and development and sharing the risks/benefits involved.

Snecma shows interest:

The GTRE has been in touch with almost all the global players but the collaborations so far have been restricted to only a review of the Kaveri engine and suggestions. Sources told The Hindu that Snecma had recently written to the Defence Ministry indicating its willingness for a possible tie-up with the GTRE, which will include a risk-sharing, joint development/production relationship on the Kaveri or any other engine that can be developed afresh for the LCA. But Snecma has asked that it be allowed to send a fact-finding team to assess the capability available at the GTRE. It also wanted a production house such as the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to be part of the collaboration.

Indications are that HAL will be keen on such a collaboration since it will not only give their engine division a substantial amount of work, but also a toe-hold in the aircraft engine developing and manufacturing industry which has so far been the preserve of the United States, Great Britain, France and Russia. Chinese fighter-aircraft engines are more a product of reverse engineering. There have been serious slippages in the development schedules of the twin spool, low bypass ratio turbo fan of the Kaveri engine, causing it to be out of synch with the rest of the LCA programme (which itself is behind schedule).

According to a report tabled in Parliament by the Standing Committee on Defence in April, the Kaveri engine will be installed on the LCA only by 2012 (the LCA is expected to enter squadron service in 2007) and that too at a revised cost of Rs. 2,839 crores (US $ 652 Million), almost eight times the 1989 initial projected development cost of Rs. 382 crores (US $ 88 Million). Noting the delay in trials and tests of the development of the country's first aero-engine, the report said there were still question marks over the completion of the engine and its financial viability in comparison to other fighter engines in the world market.

Senior GTRE scientists attribute the delay to the integration of 16,000 components, as in the case of the Kaveri engine, in the propulsion system, the most complex part of a fighter aircraft. "When the GTRE hasn't even developed a high-powered diesel engine, how can you expect us to deliver overnight?"

But scientists admit that if the engine was not produced by 2006, it would result in serious questions being asked over the continuation of the programme itself. The engine is at present undergoing endurance phase tests.

The two LCA technical demonstrators and lone prototype are now powered by GE F404 F2J3 engines. With the Aeronautical Development Agency being asked by the Indian Air Force to make 40 aircraft, India has had to order an additional 57 GE-404 IN20 engines, deliveries of which at the earliest could take a year.

TH

Well Keep trying ....... u cannot run until u not fallen of..........At least ....you are not copying RD-93 Engines.....It is nice attemp ..may be they learn few extra things from this collobration