I was reading my copy of Businessweek and they had two whole pages on Pakistan, and its booming hi-tech/services sector. Here are some of the excerpts that I thought were interesting:



The question I pose to all of you (since you more then I do about the Pakistani economy) is why has Pakistan been so late to reap its human capital, at that cheap human capital? But that isn't to say that it isn't now:



Indeed Pakistan needs to diversify its export base as the tearing down of textile quotas in the west will lead to further Chinese consolidation of the market to the detriment of Pakistan. I think if China further consolidates its hold on the textile market Pakistan may end up becoming a commodity exporter instead of a value added one to the Chinese market. But Pakistan has a booming industry so much so that it cannot met demand:



I would imagine a labour shortage is a rare event in Pakistan. According to Businessweek Pakistan's software exports in 2005 will be $50 million, and by 2008 it would reach $150 million, it would still show Pakistan to be a very small player on the world scene but it does show that at least the country is developing. Some good news out of Pakistan.

The growth is high because the base is very low. This article says Pakistan is like India, but it doesn't mention the fact that India graduates 290,000 engineers a year compared to Pakistan's 5,500 and India's software exports are 17 billion a year compared to Pakistan's 50 million.

I think by 2020 Pakistan can make an impact on the world IT industry, but now is far too early to celebrate.

Maybe 2015 by the latest in my opinion. The numbers of grad students will definetely increase exonentially as long as Mushy and other non corrupt people are in power. You know, maybe with education not only will the jahalat in both countries be diminished, but there may be a huge chance of a peace between Pakistan and India. Don't beleive me? Well, look at France and Britian, long time enemies that turned friends. Maybe down the road the same could happen. Just maybe.

well, i think that pakistanis in the US and the UK (more so in the US), especially on the west coast, who have done tremendously well (probably as well as the indians, if not better) will step up if they see the situation improve. i think the expatriate pakistanis are going to boost the growth in the sector considerably, since they have much more knowledge of the field. so i think you'll see private individuals step up and help the pakistan government gain momentum. organizations like OPEN will definitely play a big role. not to mention, there are thousands and thousands of pakistani students in american schools studying engineering and other technologically related programs at prestigious schools. i can bet as the situation improves in pakistan, larger numbers of them will head back to pakistan to help their country. their knowledge will drive pakistans growth in the field as well.

This an old article and illustrates the incentives that were offered to foriegnfirms in Pakistan
Thursday 25 July 2002
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Pakistan offers all-in deals to entice UK investors

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There is little, it seems, that the Pakistan government will not do to win a share of the billion-pound international outsourcing business. Bill Goodwin finds out what is on offer to UK investors

A Pakistan is investing billions of pounds to establish itself as a major offshore software development centre to rival India, Russia or the Far East. Although it has a long way to go before its IT services industry matches that of India, the Pakistan government is confident that it can become a significant high-tech player within three years.

The recent spate of suicide bombings and abductions could intimidate firms that are just beginning to look overseas for software outsourcing but companies that are prepared to take the plunge can benefit from spectacularly low-cost deals with major Pakistan firms.

Atta-Ur Rahman, Pakistan's minister for science and technology, is the man responsible for initiating the country's transformation into a high-tech centre.

"When I took over as minister for science and technology in March 2000 I set myself the target of trying to do in three years what would normally be done in 10 or 15. I tried to condense a lot of things so that Pakistan could become a major player in IT," he said.

The country has begun investing heavily in telecommunications, the Internet and fibre-optic links to establish the infrastructure that it will need to compete in information technology.

"When I took over in 2000 Pakistan had some 29 cities with the Internet. In the past year-and-a-half, we are now exceeding 800 towns and cities which have Internet access. And to my knowledge there is no other country in the world that has expanded so rapidly," said Atta. More than 200 now have access to fibr-optic links, compared with just 53 two years ago.

Pakistan is investing heavily in bandwidth and, significantly for western investors, the government has managed to bring down the cost of broadband from $87,000 (£58,000) to $6,000, for a 2 megabit line. "We are by far the cheapest in that part of the world," said Atta.

Pakistan will need an IT-literate workforce if it is to woo western firms, so education is a top priority. It has created seven new IT universities within the space of a year, buying in the expertise of nearly 200 IT specialists.

"We are offering salaries of $5,000 a month, which is a phenomenal amount, compared to what people normally get paid in Pakistan," said Atta.

A virtual university has also been created to train thousands more students through television and the Internet. The university will have 5,000 on its books by September and a further 20,000 within 18 months. Fees are kept deliberately low, only £14 a month, to encourage applicants.

If the right IT skills are not available locally to meet an investor's requirements the government has said it will step in to train IT professionals at its own expense, including meeting the cost of the airfares and living costs of the trainers.

Atta believes that the slowdown in IT spending in the US and the UK will encourage companies to look at Pakistan as a centre for software development. The government is offering generous tax breaks to encourage western firms. "We said, 'Let's transform the whole country into a kind of export processing zone where everything is free, so no duties, no taxes, nothing'. There is a 15-year tax holiday; there is 100% repatriation of capital allowed; all duties and tax on computers and computer parts have been abolished; and the necessity for government permissions to be obtained has been taken away."

For just £6,000 a month, the Pakistan government is offering to set UK companies up with broadband-enabled air-conditioned offices, a team of 10 software developers, three team leaders, an accountant, two support staff, and an office manager with a masters degree in business - a fraction of UK prices.

"The fact that we are English-speaking puts us ahead of China" said Atta. "The fact that we have an enabling environment, with freedom to repatriate capital, lower prices for bandwidth, and infrastructure that is far superior to India, gives us an edge. Since Pakistan has come in later on the scene, we can come in with the latest technology."

Most of the big names in IT already have operations there: Oracle, IBM and Cisco are well established and more than 50 UK companies have expressed an interest. These include Sellers, a software developer from Holborn, in London. Its managing director, Sydney Abraham, said "We are talking with a number of companies. It's a bit of a step into the unknown, but people have been very helpful."

Abraham does not see Pakistan's military government, or the occasional suicide bombings that occur, as a source of particular concern. Of the recent tensions between India and Pakistan he said, "We would not have gone over then but my understanding is that the government makes every effort to work with you and to make sure security isn't an issue."

TIGA, the independent games development association which represents about 200 UK computer games developers, is working with the High Commission on a programme to train Pakistani programmers in games development. They will come to the UK on placements with member firms, before returning to Pakistan to continue development.

Plans are still at an early stage, said chief executive Fred Hasson. "Margins in games development are being squeezed and being able to outsource large chunks of development, where they have trained staff and costs are lower, is going to keep us competitive. In practice, we will need to see what the problems of distance and culture are going to be and how easily trainees in Pakistan are going to get their heads around creating a computer game," he said.

The High Commission in London will help UK firms to pair with reliable Pakistani firms. Atta is aware however, that transforming Pakistan into an offshore software development centre will not happen overnight. In the short-term he is setting his sights on using IT to provide other services, such as call centres and computer assisted translation services.

"For experienced software developers you need a good seven to 10 years of training and experience before they start delivering the goods. In other areas such as IT support services you need two or three years and you can start running really quickly," he said.

Challenges to outsourcing IT development and support to Pakistan
Businesses will need to do their homework before transferring software development operations to Pakistan. It has seen four terrorist attacks since January, and the travel advisory notices posted by the Foreign Office and the US government do not make encouraging reading. There have also been concerns about the presence of Al Quaeda operatives in Pakistan.

"Four terrorist attacks in five months is not acceptable to business travellers who are not used to this exposure. People who work in oil and gas industries are used to this, but if you are setting up for the first time they could appear to be insurmountable obstacles," said Matthew Foreman, South Asia analyst at Control Risks.

Pakistan offers a choice of good locations:

* Karachi is large and well resourced, but, according to Control Risks, some parts of the city are "no-go" areas

* Lahore, in Northern Pakistan, is one of the most liberal cities in Pakistan and has a good manufacturing base

* The capital, Islamabad, though small, could emerge as an attractive IT centre, as business parks develop in the surrounding towns.



Control Risks advises companies to put any concerns they have about security to the Pakistan High Commission, and to seek assurances and advice before making a commitment.

For its part, the Pakistan High Commission in London says incidents are rare and have not disrupted western businesses. The commission offers advice on security, and help in arranging trips and accommodation, going as far as to collect business executives from the airport and deliver them to their hotels.

Contacts
Uzair Khan, head of business development at Pakistan's Software Export Board, has experience in IT marketing, business development and project management. Contact: Pakistan Software Export Board, Ministry of Science & Technology, The High Commission of Pakistan, 36 Lowndes Square, London SW1X 9JN. E-mail uzair141@hotmail.com, tel: 020-7664-9311
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Computer weekly

Thursday 27 June 2002
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Westminster must follow Islamabad

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With Pakistan's cut-price development move, it is time Whitehall took a more progressive approach

A new initiative from the Pakistan Government appears to offer an IT dream come true for UK businesses looking to cut costs by outsourcing software development offshore.

A mere £6,000 a month will buy you a fully appointed office with broadband Internet access, an accountant, a business manager and a team of software developers at your disposal. And if Pakistan's multiplying technology parks cannot supply the specific skills you require, they will draft in trainers from overseas and develop them to order.

Clearly there is a strong financial case for exploring this initiative. But is it too good to be true?

Where is the catch?
The catch is that IT departments can only outsource so much of their work overseas before the UK finds itself bereft of the skills it needs to remain competitive.

Just as English football teams' preference for the quick fix of a Zola or a Bergkamp over the longer-term logic of developing skills at the grass-roots level threatens the future of the domestic game, so UK companies will steadily deplete our skills base if they send all their development work overseas.

No matter how much of our development we farm out to other continents, there will still be companies whose development needs are too modest to make such a course of action financially viable. When the body of UK skills has atrophied, how will they be able to source the skills they need?

The Pakistani Government is pumping in huge amounts of resources to subsidise its initiative, because it knows that countrywide broadband connectivity and a skills-rich workforce can move it into the forefront of the lucrative IT field.

It is time the UK Government took such a forward-looking approach. Broadband access across the nation remains unsatisfactory. And, despite some good work by bodies such as the E-Skills NTO, attempts to bolster the UK's IT skills base have been patchy at best.

Our IT departments would be mad not to capitalise on any opportunity that arises to drive down development costs. But in the meantime, Westminster has to take a lead from Islamabad in acting to safeguard the future of the IT skills market in the UK.

At least there was one piece of good news in the skills market this week. Sheffield Hallam University is one of several universities turning out instantly useful graduates by offering degrees that are a blend of generic and supplier-specific skills. Now it says it is to start coaching IT trainers in the area's colleges so that they can begin to do the same.

IT professionals have long grumbled about the skills Catch-22, whereby they cannot develop supplier-specific skills because they cannot secure employment, yet cannot secure employment because they have no supplier-specific skills.

If we can cascade this emphasis on practical skills down through our educational system, we shall have progressed some way towards assuring the continued buoyancy of the UK skills market.
cw

computer weekly

Pakistani diaspora in the west is not that powerful and is significantly behind the Indian diaspora there.

pakistan has the second higest number of bachleor degree holder.

also the source is from 1999(bad bad time for pak)...post a new fresh one and ull see the diff.

Lets not forget there are a lot of Pakistani's in Canada (I should know) my university is full of them! I think that Pakistan needs to attract its ex-pats to Pakistan in order to get anywhere, like Indians have they got their ex-pats to come back and invest in India's IT industries. I read a article on how India could overtake China, and one of India's great strengths was her ability to develop home grown industry meanwhile the Chinese depended on foreign investment. If Pakistan wants to grow a strong IT industry it needs to depend on her ex-pat population.

The IT industry in india only looks good on paper. Having a few thousand back to india wouldn't do them much good considering how big a country india is. Agreed that they have some really good univs. in IT but the number is small. Definitely bigger than pak. but still small.

Agreed that we need our expats to go back and help out if we want to progress in technology in general, not just IT... Plus our expats are quite diverse in their fields, unlike the indian expats that mostly go into electrial or comp. engr. or comp. science.

look in the column carefully...only US has a percentage and the rest have numbers.

garbage, don't come up with gibberish.

Here is a ranking for Asia and Australia,

http://www.asiaweek.com/asiaweek/features/...ci.overall.html

See how many indian universities are there in the list compared to Australia and China which are bigger in size than india.

Add to that the only place where CMU has offered to invest in education at graduate level is india.

http://www.distance.cmu.edu/aboutde/India.html

And what makes you say indian IT industry is only good on paper ?




There are many indians in fields like Business and medicine.

Amongst indians most popular majors are:

1) Engineering -- Mostly guys like it.
2) Comp Sc. -- U will see some girls but still guy dominated.
3) Business -- Almost even number of guys and girls.
4) Medicine -- To good extent one can say parity between girls and guys.
5) Law -- This is slowly getting popular amongst ABCD population. Outsiders don't wanna get into this field since getting a job is a big hassle.

So there is good diversity amongst indians. The major point indian parents emphasize is that one should go for professional field in which one can develop a career. That is why you will see indians having a high family income amongst various immigrants categories in USA.

It is assumed that the reader knows that the rest are percentages too. Did you honestly think that 200,000 Pakistanis have more people with bachelor's degrees than 3,000,000 Chinese?

I think Pakistanis as muslims also have some hurdles in landing good jobs.I know this family,the sis has a Phd in nuclear physics from Cornel and the bro has a masters in physics,both jobless.why?bcoz they are both very strict and practising muslims(appearance wise).While i have seen some conservative Jewish Profs,i think they have a good hold on univ politics and thanks to the media,our practices have more mystery and misconceptions attached to them.Sometimes its harder for us to assimilate than the average Indian,like pubs,clubing,etc etc and trust me,in the workplace politics and even getting jobs,that counts.But ive seen some positive signs,the new generaton of Pakistanis,especially in Canada are quite hard working,going for good professions and i see no reason why they can be a potent/positive force in the future.
If Pakistan sustain or even improves the current growth rates and curbs the corruption and improve security,i am sure many ppl will be tempted to invest or return.

bhindian thats the keyword

I think Pakistanis as muslims also have some hurdles in landing good jobs.I know this family,the sis has a Phd in nuclear physics from Cornel and the bro has a masters in physics,both jobless.why?

Being a White Christian, I think I am qualified in answering this question. Muslims are seen as duplicitous by many non-Muslims, or the "new Jews". To many of us here in the West have questions about how loyal Muslims really are, like I said its like Christian and Jews (look at the Dreyfus affair), the modern day Dreyfus affair is things like keeping innocent Muslims locked up because of "suspicion" of terrorist activity without haepus corpus. For instance after 9/11 I would think that sublime profiling takes place, for instance a person wouldn't be so eager to hire a Muslim nuclear engineer to work at a nuclear power plant when you can get a Hindu or some other one who doesn't seem to present a possible threat to the West. Is that fair? No, but if Muslims want things to change in the West they really have to start to show themselves to be part of our socieites, following our laws, etc. That's what the Jews have done, and today they are VERY successful indeed, and Hindu's are not far behind, why? Because we trust them, as of yet we don't trust Muslims which is sad but not without reason.

That's a list Many Chinese schools are not interested and did not participate. Even top 2 Chinese schools aren't there, such as Peking University, QsingHua University.

Nico is right. And I don't see things getting better for Muslims-West relationship unless and until there is at least peace in the Middle East.

Muslims in the West are becoming the "new Jews" as Nico says. But I think, even now, Jewish people have not assimilated themselves in at least United States. Sure, they are deservedly respected but they have been the brunt of racial jokes for decades. Even now many people doubt their patriotism, especially considering their alleged loyalty to Israel more than America.

Hinduism is a very fluid, flexible religion, making Hindus more likely to adapt in diffrent cultures. Unlike Muslims, many Hindus are quite willing to accept the social scene (bars etc)--certainly a factor in one's professional career in America.

p.s. I think the Iraq war may have polarized the situation even more--too bad for Muslims.

I was looking forward to discuss this with someone especially white chriastian.

Say if this muslim was a woman and she wore a scarf, a scarf is not recommened/dangerous in postions such as hand-on engineers.(contradicts our religion)compare that to hinduism or judaism where their women and wear a bikini and shorts and even in mahabharta(hindu bible)they have half-naked ppl runnig all over quite same is the case with judaism.Remember muslim women cannot do such thing SO HOW CAN THEY COME UP FRONT AND BE SUCCESSFUL?

ALSO muslims are not permitted to drink alcohol and say in such celebration and parties alcohol is consumed all over america.Many muslim countries require u to have a licnese if u want to consume alchohol.Theres another contradiction.Hinduism and judaism dot not care much about alcohol.

INTEREST is haraam or not permitted in islam but still unfortuantely alot of muslims do so.However some oppose it.How can they afford a house, car or themselves if they dont do so???another contradiction.Hinduism or judaism has no such laws ot guidelines.

Cearly looking these are few of MANY example where muslims cant go as far as hindus or jews.Christainity today has changed alot from what it originally was(remember even the bible)i am not saying it but alot of christains themsleves do(no offense).Yet i do see many christains who attend church regularly and strictly follow bible who are the real people.Also note that Christianity,Islam and Judaism are formalized religions existing whithin the same time period and provide complete lifestyle guidelines(in other words they are complete and tell you how to spend your life and be successful afterwards).

We do get into you ways and your laws wherever possible however we have religious restrictions and to respect them.

AFfan, the asiaweek year 2000 lists had huge flaw, which was only selected small amount of Chinese and Japanese universities on research. I did not find a single of the top 10 Chinese universities on lists. Where was another article criticized that.

Also, US income by races does not indicate Indians as a whole is better nor richer. Please who me how "good diversity amongst indians."? Most Indians in US were come to US after 1998, and with HB-1 visa. The condition was you Indians must had a college degree before arrived US. IF that means Indian parents emphasized education, Why nearly half of the nations population do not read and write?

Indians HB-1s limited they must work for companies. That is something we called glass wallet(have transparent income). They must report every penny income and pay full taxes to government. However, Koreans and Chinese are not the same. Many Chinese arrived US well before WW-II, generation plus generation then immigrated more. New arrivals from China are mostly family relatives of previous oversea Chinese. Come from Southern China province without collage degree. Similar to Koreans. In most of cities in US, Korean dominate fruit store and supply chain, beauty shops and many type of retail stores. Chinese opened restaurants everywhere in US. They have cash income involved. Cash income can be hided easily to save huge percentage of taxes.

==The survey is from USCensus 2000 not later ,If the H1b's from India started arriving in 1998 , It is very difficult (almost impossible) for them to have Green Card or citizenship to be counted for survey.

H1b started long before 1998, 1998 was a boom due to y2k bug suddenly jump
in IT vacancies. Once you started working in US, you need to pay income taxes.
working permit has a tax-ID.


==Even if you what you mentioned had some truth to it how would you explain Japanese having highest percapita despite having pretty much similar percent of graduates compared to other communities???

Japan invested huge in US, they companies need to hire people speed English and
under stand janese where limited number deserved higher pay.



==Do you know that Indians own 38 % of motels in USA? More than 30 % of Hightech firms in silicon valler are started by Indians either individually or jointly? Every Immigrant community has its own specialities. nothing special about it

Yes, I know *almost* every Indians who web space will front page these pride
even though no creditable source support it. like 36% of doctors in US are Indians,
34% of US rocket engineers are Indians, 35% of xxxx are Indians. and maybe
NSA boy (Indian) wins president award,...


==I wouldnt doubt the accuracy of US census stats, they take all the things you mentioned into account when census is done.

Those are statistic by computers for who pay more taxes.

Socialism and poverty.

Indian culture emphasizes education every bit as much as Chinese culture. Indians in developed countries are expected to work hard in high school, get into a top university, and become eningeers, scientists, physicians, businessmen and etc.

Chinese have been in the United States longer and thus many of them are highly westernized (i.e. don't give a damn about their education or future) which explains why Indians are doing better there.



Those figures are indeed exaggerated but Indians do make up the highest number of physicians, hotel managers and astronautical engineers after whites in the United States.



Can you find more accurate statistics?

These are the funny numbers. No one except Indians believe.

China only got Prof. Qian back in 50s and he was the father of China's space industry. One is enough.

Looks like some mods deleted my posts.

Here are the neutral links to prove you wrong Mr.Oneman. Eat your words now

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/3177054.stm


http://www.usinpac.com/Content.asp?SEC_ID=35


http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=3852871

http://www.asianweek.com/2000_04_20/biz_indianamerican.html


http://www.asiawired.com/startups/startup/...tup_tech_sv.asp

It doesnt mean that anyone with a Tax ID is a Citizen and they are counted in Census . H1B's are temporary workers until they get their green card and they are not part of population count




The most stupid statment of all . US Census is collected from IRS data

Learn more from here about census surveys are done

http://www.census.gov/quality/quality_standards.htm

Sadly they can't, like I said before if you put your religion in front of our ways you will indeed be in a comparative disadvantage here in the West. For instance the praying 5 times a day, that is a very pious thing to do, but if I were a foreign investor looking to invest in a factory I wouldn't invest in an Islamic nation because of the prayers they cut into the productivity of the factory, while I can get Chinese labours who are basically atheistic, working like dogs for .25 an hour. This is the reality, in a capitalist world dominanted by liberal values, they reign supreme if you do not conform you will materially always be a poor nation, or a poor person. Judaism, Hinduism, Christanity, neo-Confuciusian, etc. have all pretty much morphed in a way to adapt to the modern ways. Islam has generally hasn't and really cannot as its edicts are nonalterable. That isn't to say that Muslims are illiberal, but I don't shed many tears about Muslims who refuse to accept our ways and still expect to be successful in our world.



I don't see what this has to do with being successful in our societies, Muslims drink here in the West and in the Middle East. Not all Muslims are as pious as you suggest, like many Jews who eat pork they really don't care about these rather archaic laws. I would take exception if at the party the boss forced you to drink knowing that you were a Muslim, but it is ultimately the Muslim's own decision.



I am not sheeding any tears, too bad, tough shit what do you want me to say? Interest is indeed Haraam in your religion as usury was deemed wrong in my religion (that's why Jews are so powerful in banking bc Christians found the practice immoral), but my religion has pretty much moved on from that and modernized. Am I saying that the modernization was a good thing? No, I am neutral on the subject as I believe that religion is a intensely personal expression, if you don't want to lend money based on interest so be it, but if you do so be it as well. My theological approach is rather simple, you and you alone are responsible for your own destiny in the afterlife, don't worry about others, God gave us free will for a reason. From a Marxist approach religion is a drug for the ignorant to be subserviant to some imaginary being, and thus since you are putting yourself at the whim of some being, materially you will be inferior and thus your way of life will be attacked and denegraded as long as you don't coform to the prevailing bourgeoise way of life.



That doesn't mean that Muslims cannot be successful, they could make their own businesses that cater to the special needs of Muslims like the hijab, etc. The only problem is that a "Muslim" business would probably face some difficulty because of perception of Muslims now in the West.



Its a tradeoff sometimes, commercial success in the West (and the world now) largely means that you have to do un-Islamic things, it all depends on what you consider the priority material wealth, or spiritual fulfilment.
Historically speaking Muslims have always been a threat to the Western way of life, from Christianity to liberalism the Muslim has always proved to be the antithesis to our way of life. This goes deep into the psychological core of our mental processes, and I don't expect to change anytime soon. Especially after the attacks of 9/11 Americans most specificially are not fans of Muslims, flamed by Zionism's lobbying groups that mistrust is only growing.

Actually, I think after Caucasians, the Chinese come in second (when it comes to engineering and medical and other things) while the Indians come in third.

the stupid does not know what is IRS, not relate to tax!?
The funny likes are all writen by big mouth Indians to prove Indians are big mouthes.

You are being overly simplistic here. I am sure the muslim workers could make up for the lost time during prayers by working extra hours.

What IRS and tax not related? You seriously need to get you head checked

Sources like BBC and NPR are Indian now?

Why do you want to get humiliated even more

That's not the point the point is that on a assembly line you cannot just stop doing everything, it cuts into productivity even if they were to make it up after they are still uncompetitive against Chinese workers who just work. You cannot turn off factory machines and then start them up again like a light switch, it takes a lot of time to start those machines, and a lot of time workers doing nothing waiting for the machines to start up again. Investing in industry in the Islamic world is imo a waste of money.