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Captain Bribes
I was looking around the CIA worldfactbook online and I noticed that Pakistan spends only 4.9% of its GDP on defence and if these figures are to be accepted that would be roughly $3.848 billion per annum.

By looking at sound other countries on the list sorted by highest defence budgets we can see the following:

Rank

Country

Military expenditures - percent of GDP
(%)

Date of Information
1
Jordan 14.60 2004
2
Eritrea 13.40 2004
3
Oman 11.40 2003
4
Angola 10.60 2004
5
Qatar 10.00 NA
6
Saudi Arabia 10.00 2002
7
Israel 8.70 FY02
8
Yemen 7.80 2003

9
Armenia 6.50 FY01
10
Bahrain 6.30 2004
11
Burundi 6.00 2004
12
Macedonia 6.00 NA
13
Syria 5.90 NA
14
Maldives 5.50 2004
15
Kuwait 5.30 2004
16
Turkey 5.30 2003
17
Brunei 5.10 2004
18
Morocco 5.00 2004
19
Pakistan 4.90
------------------------------------------

If we doubled the budget that would allow us $8/9 billion annually for defence out of which we can use the normal $4 billion or so for normal maintence and the other $4 billion for arms purchases.

With $4 Billion annually Pakistan can purchase approx:

Navy:

3 X Agosta 90-b ($300*3=$900 million)
4 X F-22 ($200*4)

Airforce:

50 X JF17 ($20*50 = $1 BILLION)
25 X F16 ($40*25 = $1 BILLION)

Imagine building all those 3 submarines, 4 frigates, Thousands of tanks, 50 JF-17s every year;

If Pakistan wants to be a major arms supplier it must first start buying its own equipment and mass-produce for export to friendly states.

Could Pakistan sustain a defence budget of 10% of GDP over several years?

applepie
Over half our budget is allocated for debt financing!

No, we must sit tight and wait as that 5% (approx) increases in actual monetary terms to allow greater spending.
PakiPatriot
I dont mean any disrespect (I know it wont sound like it), but is this guy a NUT?!
Captain Bribes
This is a serious thread pakipatriot.

I really think that Pakistan's defence buget is far to low, Pakistan needs to account for several factors thesedays not just India.

Pakistan military needs to be able to fight two wars simulatenously whilst still securing its international frontiers on all fronts.

That being said I think that Pakistan today is in a very dangerous neighbourhood, Pakistan should not only take into account India but also the threat from Iran and instabilty in Afghanistan.


We must maintain the integrity of Pakistan at any cost.
Pathfinder
QUOTE(akimatsuri @ Oct 21 2005, 09:06 PM)
This is a serious thread pakipatriot.

I really think that Pakistan's defence buget is far to low, Pakistan needs to account for several factors thesedays not just India.

Pakistan military needs to be able to fight two wars simulatenously whilst still securing its international frontiers on all fronts.

That being said I think that Pakistan today is in a very dangerous neighbourhood, Pakistan should not only take into account India but also the threat from Iran and instabilty in Afghanistan.


We must maintain the integrity of Pakistan at any cost.
[right][snapback]697996[/snapback][/right]


i totaly agree wit you. but it can only happen if pakistans economy is strong enough. unlike india pakistan invests money in public sector as well. hence poverty is increasing in india. and getteing bit better in pakistan.
Captain Bribes
Can someone please give me an accurate figure on Pakistans economy with full source?

According to an article in Bloomberg the Pakistani economy stood at $95 Billion but according to other sources Pakistan has breached the $100 Billion dollar barrier.

Ofcourse it doesnt help when we get Shukat Hussain telling us the Gdp per capita is $762 which would mean 162 million * $762 = 123 Billion.

wiseking

pakistans population isnt 162, its closer to 150. by the way, its not shaukat hussain, its shaukat aziz.
sorwar
A lot of those countries on the list are only able to spend around 10% of their GDP on defence due to the fact that they get external military aid(from the US in the case of Israel,or are oil producers like Saudi Arabia.

For Pakistan to spend 10% of its GDP on defence would mean that it would have to spend virtually all the revenue that the governemnt collects in taxes on the military. Where would the money be left over for debt-financing, health, education or infastructure?

What Pakistan needs to do is to grow its economy as quickly as it can, so that the extra funding can come from the increase in the size of the economy. Also as an economy gets more developed it usually translates that a higher percentage of the GDP can be collected by the government.
ISI2003
if the economy doubles then 4% in the future will equal 8% of nowaday

so building up the economy, increasing trade with china is the way to go
oracle
QUOTE
I dont mean any disrespect (I know it wont sound like it), but is this guy a NUT?!


Could not agree more.
Why the idea qualifies for top of the line stupidity.

1
If we increase the budget to 8 billion, India will increase their by a greater ammount. Their economy is 7 times greater then that of Pakistan. They already spend 18 billion dollars, but only 2,5% of GDP. A arms race is NOT in our favor.

2
We sant to become another Turkey or Malaysia. We do not have the oil economy of Saudi Arabia. We must invest in education, roads, hospitals and ports.

3
The Sequrity problem can't be solved by military means. We need to find ways to stablise the situation with India.
Captain Bribes
How exactly is India's economy 7 times bigger? Last time I checked it was $500 billion thats only 5 times bigger than Pakistans $100 Billion; Considering India needs to provide for a billion people I would have thought that re-armament would cause India to cut its other expenditure thus limit the ammount of Investment it makes into economic developement.

There really needs to be a way to tackle this problem, I think Pakistan should start promoting "Human resources" in India especially Kashmir, Punjab, Nagaland.

smile.gif
oracle
QUOTE
How exactly is India's economy 7 times bigger? Last time I checked it was $500 billion thats only 5 times bigger than Pakistans $100 Billion; Considering India needs to provide for a billion people I would have thought that re-armament would cause India to cut its other expenditure thus limit the ammount of Investment it makes into economic developement.

There really needs to be a way to tackle this problem, I think Pakistan should start promoting "Human resources" in India especially Kashmir, Punjab, Nagaland.


Indias GDP is somewhere between 600 to 800 billion. Per capita income of India is higher.

As for prviding for people, look at the news. Whom is going to foot the bill for 3 million homless kashmiris facing the winter?? India does have a great poverty problem, but we are in no better place. We will loose a arms race, with flying colors. It is sheer stupidity.

As for your promotion of Huma resources; may I ask what effects the promotion of jehad has had on us. Are you even slightly aware of the himalyan costs of this adventure. We need to have peaceful borders. We have the nukes, that provide a massive deterrence. India is not a real threat for us any more (stated by Musharraf himself).
Captain Bribes
Pakistan needs to get its teeth into its neighbours, I look around at Pakistans neighbours and I see nothing but wolves waiting to jump on us so we must attack them first.

India is not the only problem here like I said, Iran and Afghanistan are also sources of instability, Iran is in my view a hostile country.


applepie
CIA factbook places percentage poverty rates for Pak higher then for India.

Sadly, our poverty levels rose in the 1990's, courtesy Nawaz and Benazir.

Slayer
do you want pak to in company with jordan and eriteria?

look at what europeans spend! how much of gdp is spent on military in china?

we should be rather cutting the military spending to maybe 3% of gdp rather then increasing it to 10%!!!

we should use the available funds for domestic and cheaper production and allow defense production to sell and produce funds themselves.

increase in military spending should come only from increase in economy, not from % rise.

Also, can you please tell us how much of pak budget is spent on military???? That is much more important then gdp. Coz gdp is generated by people and gov cannot spend from gdp, it can only spend from its revenues.
Mark Sien
Actually, the current defence budget only covers maintainence of the military, operating costs, wages, etc. Military acquisitions are done through extra funds from the government.
_kiLLuminati_
QUOTE(oracle @ Oct 21 2005, 05:03 PM)
Indias GDP is somewhere between 600 to 800 billion. Per capita income of India is higher. [right][snapback]698067[/snapback][/right]

No, it isn't.
Gripen87
QUOTE(Slayer @ Oct 21 2005, 06:03 PM)
do you want pak to in company with jordan and eriteria?

look at what europeans spend! how much of gdp is spent on military in china?

we should be rather cutting the military spending to maybe 3% of gdp rather then increasing it to 10%!!!

we should use the available funds for domestic and cheaper production and allow defense production to sell and produce funds themselves.

increase in military spending should come only from increase in economy, not from % rise.

Also, can you please tell us how much of pak budget is spent on military???? That is much more important then gdp. Coz gdp is generated by people and gov cannot spend from gdp, it can only spend from its revenues.
[right][snapback]698101[/snapback][/right]


I totally agree with Slayer.... we should reduce our spending on defence if anything. It should only increase once the economy is healthy. Right now its a matter of an economic race not an arms race. I think the spending should go down to 3% for 5 - 10yrs atleast. I remember reading some where that Musharaff has lowered the defence spendings which was the right move. As long as we have Nukes the bordering countries will think twice before striking someone like Pakistan. Im sure Afghanistan is not going to attack during those 10 yrs since U.S is there. Im not sure why Iran would attack Pakistan at all and India surely dosent want it to come down to Nukes. Also if we were to go into a war we prob wouldnt be able to fund it long enough, we wouldnt last 1 month with out a strong economy. So if we are to increase fundings towards our economy and put it on a path of growth only then can we increase our military budget. Basically the stronger the economy the stronger the military will be.

The only advantages of increasing defence spendings are that
1. We can invest in our defence industries so we can export and buy our own products, pretty much self reliance which is very important.
2. Our influence in the region will increase as military strength increases.
kashm
QUOTE(akimatsuri @ Oct 21 2005, 11:44 AM)
Navy:

3 X Agosta 90-b ($300*3=$900 million)
4 X F-22 ($200*4)



F-22 for Navy? Hmm...here is another madrassa educated kid.
sajid107
Our GDP growth is very good. If we can sustain the higher growth then Insha-Allah, by 2015 our economy will be over 220 billion.

Even if we grow at 7.5% a year, we will hit 220 billion by 2015.

220 * 5% = 11 billion USD for defense.

It will gradually increase. Investing more in infrastructure and human resource is better option for now.

Few factors that have made a significant positive difference in the economic landscape of our country.

1. Fiscal discipline

Revenue mobilization has doubled from almost $300 billion to $600 billion in this period through a combination of improved tax administration, reducing the discretion of tax collector and minimizing interaction between tax payer and tax collector, rationalizing the tax rates and structure and widening the tax base to some extent.

2. Financial sector reform and restructuring

The financial sector has become the lynchpin of the revival of economic growth in Pakistan. Not only that the sector has become sound and healthy and strong enough to withstand exogenous shocks but has played a major role in broadening access to the middle class and lower income groups.

3. Macroeconomic stability

All indicators, whether current account balance, fiscal balance, exchange rate, interest rates, foreign exchange reserves, point clearly to a positive direction with the exception of inflation. The challenge for the economic managers is to maintain this stability so that private investors can make investment decisions with full knowledge of the expected profitability in an environment where there is little turbulence or swings in the key prices. The continuity, consistency, predictability and transparency of economic policies are essential to foster this environment.

4. Deregulation: In a number of areas such as petroleum, natural gas and agriculture inputs and outputs the prices and trade have been completely deregulated. The most successful experience of deregulation has taken place in the telecom sector.

6. Privatization: Most of the banks, industrial companies, etc. have already been transferred to the private sector. The shares of some utilities and infrastructure companies have been floated through stock exchanges. But now is the turn to sell large ticket items such as PSO, Power distribution and generation companies, integrated power utility such as KESC. The efficiency gains, tax revenues accruing to the government instead of subsidizing their losses, improved customer service and expansion through new investment are some of the direct and indirect benefits to the economy from privatization.

7. Trade liberalization: Lower tax rates and absence of discretionary measures by the customs officials have created disincentives for tax evasion and helped accurate declaration and classification of imported goods. It is seldom realized that high tariffs act as a tax on exports that are not able to obtain the required imports and raw materials for meeting their production in a cost effective manner.

8. Financial sovereignty: Pakistan had lost control on its economic management and thus virtually conceded the right to design policies to international financial institutions particularly the IMF. We had lost our credibility as a serious development partner because we entered into successive agreements and made commitments on policy reforms and institutional changes. But, we were good at drawing down the first tranche of the loan and then abandoning the programme. It is only since the year 2000 when Pakistan entered into a stand-by arrangement with the IMF (successfully completed in 2001) followed by a three-year PRGF programme that the country has shown serious mindedness and a commitment to fulfill its obligations. By the end of 2004 Pakistan had drawn down 12 tranches in succession on time without any hiatus and decided to forego the remaining two tranches voluntarily after the review was completed by the IMF Board. Pakistan has thus been able to regain its financial sovereignty and is no longer dependent on the whims and caprices of the international financial institutions or large bilateral creditor countries who control these institutions.

Challenges for the future:

Despite the impressive studies made on several fronts in the recent past Pakistan has a number of challenges to reduce incidence of poverty to half its current level by 2015. This will require sustained GDP growth rates of 7 to 8 percent per annum, targeted poverty interventions and accelerated investment in human development. Some of these challenges are listed below:

1. Diversification of export base: Two thirds of Pakistani exports are based on Cotton textiles while in the world market textiles are not a dynamic commodity. Technological base of Pakistani exports is low and the share of engineering goods is almost negligible. Not only the share of engineering goods in the world market is almost 50 percent but is rate of growth is above average. Thus the need for diversifying away from textiles to medium technology exports is quite obvious. Greater emphases on technical and vocational education as well as integration into world supply chains are critical for this diversification. Reliance on a single commodity based exports is neither desirable nor beneficial in the long run and is prone to serious risks.

2. Development of human resources: It has been well established and there is a broad consensus that among all the factors that will make a difference to Pakistan’s economic and social goals is the extent to which we are able to step up investment in human development. Indeed this is the single most dominating factor that has kept the country below its potential. High population growth has given rise to a young dependent population and increased unemployment among the youth. The average years of schooling of labor force (3¼ years) remains quite low making it difficult to impart new skills to the burgeoning labour force. Raising this by 1½-2 years could have raised real per capita economic growth rate by about ½ percentage points per year. Investment in higher education, science and research, vocational and technical education, female education thus should be the highest priority for the next ten years. This can only be achieved if there is a strong public-private-community partnership in the governance and provisioning of education and health. Investing in human development through better education and health care benefits the poor directly but these should be well targeted.

3. Investment in infrastructure: Higher economic growth rates can be sustained on a long term time horizon only if the bottlenecks, shortages, disruptions and breakdown in supplies, in power, gas, oil pipelines, ports, railways, and congestion in roads and highways are removed. This requires huge investment in each of these areas. Public Sector development program can finance only one half of the annual requirements of US$ 3 billion. The remaining requirements will have to be filled in by the private sector.

4. Regional hub: Another reason for large investment in physical infrastructure is to exploit the potential of Pakistan’s strategic location as a regional hub for the Middle East, Central Asia and Western China and South Asia. Gwadar port is being developed to take advantage of this potential but developing a network of highways, warehouses and terminals, oil and gas pipelines, power generation plants, facilitation of cross-border trade, harmonization of tariffs and duties are some of the ingredients that will pave the way for meeting this objective. Peaceful relations with the neighboring countries and greater cooperation in areas of trade and transit will lay the solid foundations.

5. Productivity increase in agriculture and industry: Compared to the countries in East Asia and China that should serve as the benchmark for Pakistan’s competitiveness we lag behind in total factor productivity as well as productivity gains in commodity producing sectors. Although the yields per hectare of major crops have risen over time these are still lower than those in Indian Punjab and Haryana. Except for export industries the productivity levels in manufacturing are sub optimal. On-the-job training and injection of new skilled workers are some of the short term measures that can help but in the long term, emphasis on technical and vocational education rather then producing graduates with generalized education will yield the desired results.

6. Judicial and legal reforms: It is believed that the financial sector and real sector of the economy will benefit immensely if land titles were clear, coded, actively traded, mortgaged and exchanged without much hassle; if the court system is unclogged and the enforcement of contracts is much quicker with low transaction costs and if the poor have equal access to the Police and the judiciary for redressing wrongs done to them. In Pakistan, the slow and cumbersome legal system combined with unequal access to the poor to the system have to be put right both for efficiency gains as well as for attaining a just and equitable distribution.

7. Widening the tax base: The tax administration that has been practised in Pakistan has deployed indirect means, presumptive assessment and compulsory withholding taxes to collect most of the taxes. This system has not only kept the tax-GDP ratio stagnant but also restricted the growth of tax base and tax payers. The recent reforms of the Central Board of Revenue give some hope that tax base will be widened so that tax-GDP ratio can rise and a more equitable incidence of burden takes place. A natural corollary of this widening of tax base is that the tax rates particularly for individual income tax and corporate tax can be reduced gradually and thus discourage the incentives to evade taxes. Tax collection in Pakistan has been much higher when the rates are low supporting the supply side hypothesis.

Risks to the future outlook:

Several observers of Pakistan economy appear to be overly obsessed with the political risk arguing that the country may end up with a situation in which the Islamic extremist parties or their sympathizers in the Army wrest control over the country’s nuclear arms. The victory of the MMA in the NWFP and Balochistan and their apparent anti-American stance have fortified the beliefs of these observers mostly in the western think tanks and the media. Both the main components of the Alliance - Jamaat-e-Islami and Jamiat Ulema Islam - have no history or links with religious extremist groups who have created violence in the country. This risk is also highly exaggerated as more than 88 percent of Pakistani population voted for the mainstream moderate political parties at the most recent elections. Pakistan Army is a highly disciplined, organized and modern force and the support for the extremist parties in the ranks of Army is almost non-existent. These western observers have very little familiarity with the strength and resilience of Pakistan’s polity. Pakistan’s nuclear assets will remain safe as country has developed an effective command and control system.

Although the political and geopolitical risks remain paramount in the minds of the western observes there are residual risks that can possibly slow down the trajectory of high economic growth and poverty reduction.

First, it is assumed above that the country will continue to face a benign external environment and will remain free from major upheavals and unanticipated exogenous shocks. In case the external environment becomes hostile or some other major internal disturbance takes place, it is unlikely that the high growth momentum can be maintained.

Second, the implementation capacity and weakness of institutions are still major obstacles. The need to inculcate professionalism, expertise, competence and systems to make the civil services meet the realities of the 21st century is being met through reforms but will take some time. In the meanwhile, the nature of the government has dramatically changed; public expectations have heightened while implementation capacity of government policies, programs and projects as well as the delivery of public services has been seriously impaired. Sound policies can see the light of day only if the institutional capacity is strengthened and reoriented. Public-private-community partnership provides a way forward to mitigate this risk. The reform of civil service is on the agenda but needs to be expedited.

Third, the legal and judicial system is out-of-sync with the requirements of modern business practices. Contract enforcement, sanctity of property rights and dispute resolution mechanisms leave much to be desired. Congestion of courts, cumbersome and time-consuming procedures, inadequate training of judges in commercial and banking laws and physical infrastructure facilities are some of the constraints for the present state of affairs. Reforms of laws and judiciary have to be given priority attention by political leaders. The Asian Development Bank (ADB) is assisting the government through its Access to Justice program.

Fourth, the most important missing link in Pakistan’s competitive edge and what is posing as a serious threat to its economic progress are the poor indicators of human development. Adult literacy and the skill level of the labor force are low, health status is precarious with low productivity, high absenteeism and gender disparities are large. The country has to devote more attention and resources to invest in education, health, nutrition and gender programs to equip the labor force to excel in its area of specialization.

Finally, Pakistan has embarked on a program to devolve administrative functional and financial powers to local tiers of government. This experiment is extremely critical for providing essential public services at the doorsteps of the poor people. The teething problems and legal snags confronting the local governments if unresolved could create a potential difficulty in reaching out to the poor.

These risks, except those arising out of adverse or unanticipated exogenous shocks, can be mitigated through a series of reforms. Institutional capacity can be strengthened, judicial and legal processes can be revamped, human development can be accelerated and devolution of powers can be expedited. The balance of risks therefore suggests that given a benign global economy and domestic political stability, Pakistan can move forward in its march towards meeting its economic and social goals.
kashm
QUOTE(akimatsuri @ Oct 21 2005, 11:44 AM)
I was looking around the CIA worldfactbook online and I noticed that Pakistan spends only 4.9% of its GDP on defence and if these figures are to be accepted that would be roughly $3.848 billion per annum.

By looking at sound other countries on the list sorted by highest defence budgets we can see the following:

Rank

Country

Military expenditures - percent of GDP
(%)

Date of Information
1
Jordan  14.60  2004
2
Eritrea  13.40  2004
3
Oman  11.40  2003
4
Angola  10.60  2004
5
Qatar  10.00  NA
6
Saudi Arabia  10.00  2002
7
Israel  8.70  FY02
8
Yemen  7.80  2003

9
Armenia  6.50  FY01
10
Bahrain  6.30  2004
11
Burundi  6.00  2004
12
Macedonia  6.00  NA
13
Syria  5.90  NA
14
Maldives  5.50  2004
15
Kuwait  5.30  2004
16
Turkey  5.30  2003
17
Brunei  5.10  2004
18
Morocco  5.00  2004
19
Pakistan  4.90
------------------------------------------

If we doubled the budget that would allow us $8/9 billion annually for defence out of which we can use the normal $4 billion or so for normal maintence and the other $4 billion for arms purchases.

With $4 Billion annually Pakistan can purchase approx:

Navy:

3 X Agosta 90-b ($300*3=$900 million)
4 X F-22 ($200*4)

Airforce:

50 X JF17 ($20*50 = $1 BILLION)
25 X F16  ($40*25 = $1 BILLION)

Imagine building all those 3 submarines, 4 frigates, Thousands of tanks, 50 JF-17s every year;

If Pakistan wants to be a major arms supplier it must first start buying its own equipment and mass-produce for export to friendly states.

Could Pakistan sustain a defence budget of 10% of GDP over several years?
[right][snapback]697929[/snapback][/right]


I have to agree with you Pakistan should raise its defense spending to 9% of GDP. What better way to get rid of the enemy than to have him dig his own grave? W00T.GIF
sobank
first of all for two lines you dont need to quote the whole post.

secondly 4% is good enough. anything lower or higher will be suicide for us. nuclear deterence doesnt mean that it will provide a safer border. lets say india initiates a small war on the border then what you gonna do? nuke india. what what will you get in return? ladoos installed on agni.

In my opinion present budget for military is a balance one. no need to increase or decrease it. if any thing than i would favor decrease and even that by only 0.1 or 0.2 percent as needed in time of need like the earthquake we have right now.
1pakistani
QUOTE(kashm @ Oct 22 2005, 03:43 PM)
F-22 for Navy? Hmm...here is another madrassa educated kid.
[right][snapback]698184[/snapback][/right]



u fuked in the head ....
hey mate keep ur f.u.k.ing tongue in control and if u dont know crap than dont open ur ###### mouth go read abt pakistan navey purchases than come and making comment on wat he is saying 4 f-22p ships from china so y did ur ass catch on fire r u scared that if we get f22 u gonna get ur asses blown up,
Dilpakistani
First of all the defense budged Pakistan is 3.8% of GDP in FY 2004-05 and would remain at 3.9-4.0% in 2005-06....and it may be of ur interest to know to that we bring it down from 5.6% fo GDP.... As far increasing or doubling the defense budged is concern....its not practicaly possible because even 4% is a huge GDP to expenditure ratio on any single Item as India only spend 3% of it's GDP , USA 2.5 % and China 6% because of it's rocketed projection of economy growth.....so the only way is to gradually improve the country's economy so that we may have enough resources in the future to generate handsome ransom for our defense expenditures...otherwise we simply can't afford even 4% of GDP for defense expenditures....
Gripen87
QUOTE(sobank @ Oct 22 2005, 02:33 AM)
first of all for two lines you dont need to quote the whole post.

secondly 4% is good enough. anything lower or higher will be suicide for us. nuclear deterence doesnt mean that it will provide a safer border. lets say india initiates a small war on the border then what you gonna do? nuke india. what what will you get in return? ladoos installed on agni.

In my opinion present budget for military is a balance one. no need to increase or decrease it. if any thing than i would favor decrease and even that by only 0.1 or 0.2 percent as needed in time of need like the earthquake we have right now.
[right][snapback]698222[/snapback][/right]


No one said that we would use nukes on small border wars... For small border wars i believe 3% of GDP is enough. We are still getting funds and still supporting the military.
_kiLLuminati_
QUOTE(1pakistani @ Oct 22 2005, 04:41 AM)
u fuked in the head ....
hey mate keep ur f.u.k.ing tongue in control and if u dont know crap than dont open ur ###### mouth go read abt pakistan navey purchases than come and making comment on wat he is saying 4 f-22p ships from china so y did ur ass catch on fire r u scared that if we get f22 u gonna  get ur asses blown up,
[right][snapback]698238[/snapback][/right]

that dumbass probably doesn't even know that F-22 is also a name of a ship LOLANI.GIF and he is calling others low-educated W00T.GIF
sobank
QUOTE(1pakistani @ Oct 22 2005, 05:41 AM)
u fuked in the head ....
hey mate keep ur f.u.k.ing tongue in control and if u dont know crap than dont open ur ###### mouth go read abt pakistan navey purchases than come and making comment on wat he is saying 4 f-22p ships from china so y did ur ass catch on fire r u scared that if we get f22 u gonna  get ur asses blown up,
[right][snapback]698238[/snapback][/right]


cleaning the language will help a little bit.

QUOTE(Gripen87 @ Oct 22 2005, 11:34 AM)
No one said that we would use nukes on small border wars... For small border wars i believe 3% of GDP is enough. We are still getting funds and still supporting the military.
[right][snapback]698404[/snapback][/right]


well it looks like musharaf doesnt agree with you so i will go with mushy if you dont mind. :)
paknet
Just a question, how many of you pray 5 times a day and ask for pakistans dilverance from the mess/crisis it is in rather than talk about macro economics, bugdet this and GDP that?

no doubt they are important but tell me how many of you are sitting at your computers on this usless forum arguing uslessness when your prayer time is ticking away? [and yes i have prayed before i logged on]

i beggers belief that you go on and on but totally ignore praying and making dua properly and with sincerity.
aziqbal
Jordan and Israel can spend up to 15% of GDP in arms because they receive massive US aid if pakistan were to do the same it would hell strain the economy.
SCB1800
QUOTE(_Samid_ @ Oct 22 2005, 01:56 PM)
that dumbass probably doesn't even know that F-22 is also a name of a ship LOLANI.GIF and he is calling others low-educated W00T.GIF
[right][snapback]698497[/snapback][/right]

Well thats what we call hindu rat temple education idiots W00T.GIF tongue4.gif
Mark Sien
QUOTE(kashm @ Oct 22 2005, 12:43 AM)
F-22 for Navy? Hmm...here is another madrassa educated kid.
[right][snapback]698184[/snapback][/right]

^ Clear example of a hindu-temple educated guru

Kashm baba, can I ask you;
were you born stupid, or were you nurtured by the temple monkeys to be stupid?

While you were drinking urine and pimping temple monkeys, they invented "Google".
gladiator
Finally some sensible responses.

Competing with India in terms of Arms is not only stupidity its economic suicide, which we so desperately need.

Beside do u know this is also new India, who dreams of becomming super power, and they would want nothing better then to declare LOC the international bordars and stay away from any dispute with Pakistan.
My point, india is not the big threat anymore and even the form of threat is different now.

What we do need to do is have smaller but more potent force. More skilled, more technical advance and more potent. Buying weapons wont get us far, as we cant get the latest equiptment and beside, in this ever changing world nothing remains cutting edge for long.

We need to develop our own high tech defence technology, and better civil technology means better defence tech and more possibilities. So we are back to economy. To make our defence better we must have better economy.
ISI2003
if the government wants to increase spending, it should be in improving logisitcs, as we can see with the earthquake

if roads were better in the north alot of people could have gotten assistance, alot sooner, and possibly many lives could have been saved

also logisitics/infastruture helps everyone (ex. the GT road back in the old days, and the motorway now), so it will be a civil and military thing

---------------
buying hevy lift helicopters, large eart movers, and proper tranosrts would be acceptable under the circumstances

also pakistan should have at least 10,000 airborne troops for rapid deployment in case of war, or parachuete dropping and then coordination with local for relief air drops

basically air tranport stuff would be acceptable
platinum786
this takes teh cake, the most rediculous suggestion ever
The One
I am currently making a report on Budget Of Pakistan
Therefore I would like to quote the figures of Defence.

"The budget for 2004-05 allocated Rs 193.92 billion to defence which was raised to Rs 223.5 billion in the budget for 2005-06. The defence sector also gets resources through other means. These include the pensions of military personnel, which is shown as civilian expenditure, covert expenditure on defence-oriented projects, income generated by the military through its commercial and industrial activities, and foreign loans and grants for military training and purchase of hardware."


Daily Times

_kiLLuminati_
QUOTE(paknet @ Oct 22 2005, 02:14 PM)
Just a question, how many of you pray 5 times a day and ask for pakistans dilverance from the mess/crisis it is in rather than talk about macro economics, bugdet this and GDP that?

no doubt they are important but tell me how many of you are sitting at your computers on this usless forum arguing uslessness when your prayer time is ticking away? [and yes i have prayed before i logged on]

i beggers belief that you go on and on but totally ignore praying and making dua properly and with sincerity.
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Are you asking us, or are you assuming that none of us pray 5 times a day? and why does our faith concern you? It is a matter between Allah and one individual. Nothing else.
Slayer
the one:

what proportion of total pak budget is allocated to military?
ZFBoxcar
The military is about 23.3% of Pakistan's budget according to CIA factbook.
Anarchist
Country 's defence comes first, but we also follow the wisdom and spend the money wisely. Educate more people and built more and better inferastructure, it will pay off in long run and help us to do R&D, and also strength our economy.

let india buy like an idiot. we must not drag ourself in to arm race, but keep building up slowly and surely and focus strongly on economy, education, and inferastructe. how to make the living of common man better without compromising too much on defence and how to educate every single pakistani to produce more scientist, engineers localy, God bless we have 160 million strong population, it should provide us lots of talent to explore to turn pakistan in undefeatable fortress and strong economy with best inferastructure in entire asia.
ABBASIA
Well lot of stuff has been discussed but I wanted to clear one thing,our this year defence budget is 223 billion Rs. that is 223/60 = 3.75 billion dollars approximately. Now our GDP for the current year is approx 110 billion dollar. So the defence spending fall below 3 pc of GDP. So let us correct our datasheet.
Slayer
QUOTE(ZFBoxcar @ Oct 24 2005, 07:09 PM)
The military is about 23.3% of Pakistan's budget according to CIA factbook.


oh my God!!!

I think no developed country has more then 10% of its budget allocated to military. I think the limit with japan is even less.
Mark Sien
QUOTE(Slayer @ Oct 25 2005, 06:57 AM)
oh my God!!!

I think no developed country has more then 10% of its budget allocated to military. I think the limit with japan is even less.
[right][snapback]699901[/snapback][/right]

He meant budget, as in annual budget not GDP;

Pakistan's expenditures are $16.51bn USD, of which 23.3%, is 3.85bn USD is for defence.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbo...os/pk.html#Econ
ZFBoxcar
Yeah, its not that bad. The US' spending on defense is about 15.9% of its total budget.
Indiski
This is a CIA estimate of World rankings in GDP by PPP.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=...r/2001rank.html
abhiinalwar
QUOTE(Indiski @ Oct 25 2005, 09:33 PM)
This is a CIA estimate of World rankings in GDP by PPP.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&start=1&oi=...r/2001rank.html
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Dear All
Latest GDP figure upto May-2005 available at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Asian_countries_by_GDP

This is for asian countries only.
Regards
abhiinalwar
QUOTE(ABBASIA @ Oct 24 2005, 10:49 PM)
Well lot of stuff has been discussed but I wanted to clear one thing,our this year defence budget is 223 billion Rs. that is 223/60 = 3.75 billion dollars approximately. Now our GDP for the current year is approx 110 billion dollar. So the defence spending fall below 3 pc of GDP. So let us correct our datasheet.
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Dear
Please see pakistan budget last year.There are lots of things which are not included in defence budget like soldiers salaries,pentions,provident funds, missile research(Buying fund),space buying fund,Military equipment research and development funds etc. according to US report published in april 2004 by golbal security all this would need around 140 bil pak rupee more.Please add this also
Regards
haroons222
QUOTE(paknet @ Oct 22 2005, 02:14 PM)
Just a question, how many of you pray 5 times a day and ask for pakistans dilverance from the mess/crisis it is in rather than talk about macro economics, bugdet this and GDP that?

no doubt they are important but tell me how many of you are sitting at your computers on this usless forum arguing uslessness when your prayer time is ticking away? [and yes i have prayed before i logged on]

i beggers belief that you go on and on but totally ignore praying and making dua properly and with sincerity.
[right][snapback]698583[/snapback][/right]



Wasting our time on useless forums?it looks funny coming out of someone who has 400+posts:P.Yes we have to ask Allah for help,laikin upper say mano salwa nahi uttarna beta,we have to work for allthis ourselves.we have to try our best to improve our economy,agay Allah hi marzi.
And plz,how do u know if ppl havent prayed or not before coming here!!!
So U.S. is the richest country in the worl,does that mean all of them pray 24/7.Got pissed at the earlier post abt somoene linking f-22 with madrassas,but ur post is even more irritating.
haroons222
Now back to the topic,i was actually looking over the GDP of muslim countries just today,its funny who all the stats come out.Turkey and Iranare like almost identical in population and GDP but a closer look will reveal that all of that in Turkey is coming from a sound and ever growing industrial base,while in Iran,its mostly oil.I mean im not saying their industrial base is like somalia,but its not nearly as good as Turkey.
There is alot activity in Pakistan,esp telecommunication and realestate sector but i dont htink thats real economic growth.We MUST install several heavy industry units in our country,then make institutes,or upgrade the existing ones to increase the number of skilled labour,decrease the corruption so that ppl will have faith in their financial institutions andgovt. and will invest in the industries.Lastly,making good research facilities is also a must.
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