JANE'S DEFENCE WEEKLY - MARCH 15, 2006
Saudi Arabia to trial Al Khalid MBT

Farhan Bokhari JDW Correspondent
Islamabad

The Saudi armed forces are due in April to begin trialling the MBT 2000 Al Khalid main battle tank (MBT), manufactured by Pakistan's Heavy Industries Taxila. Islamabad is hoping that this will lead to the conclusion of the country's first large MBT export deal, Pakistani defence sources told Jane's.

The Saudi desert trials come almost two years after the Royal Saudi Army expressed interest in purchasing a batch of the newly developed Al Khalid, which is powered by a 6TD-2 1,200 hp diesel engine manufactured by the Ukrainian Malyeshev tank plant. Pakistan signed a USD150 million contract with the Malyeshev plant in early 2002 for the supply of 6TD-2 series engines.

Pakistani defence officials said that if the tests are successful, Saudi Arabia could buy up to 150 Al Khalids in a deal worth up to USD600 million. This would be the largest single export contract of its kind ever for Pakistan's emerging defence industry.

The Al Khalid is of conventional layout, with the driver's compartment at the front, turret in the centre and the power pack at the rear. In many respects it appears to be almost identical to the Chinese Norinco Type 90-II MBT. The turret and hull are of all-welded steel armour construction and an additional layer of composite armour has been added over the frontal arc, to which explosive reactive armour can be added if required. Turret thickness at the front is estimated to be 600 mm with the glacis/nose estimated to be 450 to 470 mm.

The armour is of modular design, enabling the user to change damaged modules or replace the existing models with new armour packages as the threat evolves or as new technology becomes available.

The Al Khalid's main armament is a 125 mm smoothbore gun fitted with a thermal sleeve and a fume extractor. The gun is fed by an automatic loader, enabling the crew to be reduced to three: commander, gunner and driver. The Pakistan Ordnance Factories have manufactured ammunition for the 125 mm smoothbore gun for several years, including armour-piercing fin-stabilised discarding-sabot and high-explosive fragmentation types.

As originally developed, a total of 39 rounds of 125 mm ammunition of the separate loading type were carried (projectile and charge), of which 22 rounds were in the automatic loader for ready use. However, as a result of recent modifications an additional 10 rounds of ammunition can be carried, bringing the total up to 49 rounds. Vehicles already completed will be brought up to this latest production standard and carry a total of 49 rounds of 125 mm ammunition.

A 7.62 mm machine gun is mounted coaxially with the main armament and a 12.7 mm machine gun is mounted on the roof for anti-aircraft and local defence purposes. Mounted either side of the turret, towards the rear, is a bank of four electrically operated forward-firing smoke grenade dischargers. A turret basket is provided at the rear.

The computerised fire-control system includes a bi-axis stabilised dual magnification gunner's sight, bi-axis stabilised commander's sight with hunter killer capability, computer, commander's control panel, laser rangefinder, crosswind sensor, tilt sensor and angle velocity sensor, allowing the Al Khalid to engage moving targets under day and night conditions.

© 2006 Jane's Information Group

How many of these have actually been inducted in the PA?
And what is the unit price going to be?

So far there have been 103 AKs (Al-Khalids) inducted in Pakistan Army. And the unit price offer on sale of AKs to Saudi Arabia is $4 million a piece!

while it's $2 million for the PA, 100% profit
so basically $300 million profit from this deal (minus all the support equipment; so $200 million; still great )

Very interesting article from Forecast International Weapons Group.


...thats a lot of tanks, but also read this;

Fourty-percent of 7800 tanks is about 3120 tanks...remember the PLA's huge requirements, but I certainly hope that the Pakistan Army orders another 300 or so Al Khalid tanks. We should remember the Al Khalid-II will be the mainstay of the Pakistan Army's tank forces in the future; but I hope the PA buys a good number of T-98s and/or Russian T-90s.

T-90's a no go, chinese Type 99 tech is probably going to be acquired and made into Al Khalid Mk.2

A few T-90s should be acquired as aggressor units or something against Al Khalid and Al Khalid-II units.

russia would not sell, it's like china giving india 1 few type 99, so they know all the secrets

russia would not do it

the chinese could make a tank like the t-90 for agressor training and sell it to us

Nonetheless, expect at least 1500 Al Khalid and Al Khalid-IIs by 2020 in the Pakistan Army; they have to replace those incredibly old T-55s, T-59, early Zarrars, T-85IIAPs, etc. Regarding the T-90s, a lot of things can go under the table...and I'm sure a 3rd party can buy T-90s and sell a few to Pakistan.

We don't need T-90's. The latest Chinese tanks are equivalent or even superior to that of the T-90.

Lets see 10 Cav, 14 Cav and 9 Horse converted already. 44 Tanks each 44 x3 = 132 tanks. Add to that the 20 or so which the School of armour owns. And the ones earmarked for the other units that are or are in the process of converting, I would say aound 200~300.

what is the difference b/w there last visit .. when the trials were done in desert.
they should do some trial in there own place.

well if this is true than i think its a huge boost to our defence industry...
3120 tanks at 4 million is somthin like 12.480 billion and dat too buy 2015 hang on that mean we will be able to generat defence export worth more than 1.387 billion dollars per anum just from tanks and how abt other areas ie JF17 etc.. as pakistans target it to get $500 million worth of export by 2010.... so this is way past the target mark i hope this happens but i have doubt though who will purchase that many tanks from us i mean i dont think west would either middle east or maybe even china

Currently 320 Al Khalids were ordered by the PA.

It certainly helps if you read the entire post before coming to speculations and even rebutting them by saying they don't make sence. "Lockwood believes that Pakistan’s Al-Khalid, the Type 98 of the People’s Republic of China, and the Russian Federation’s T-90 will account for nearly 45 percent of all new tanks rolling out worldwide, worth about 40 percent of the market, through 2015."

Of the 3120 tanks, at least 1500 of them will be the Chinese T-99 for their PLA; while at least 1000 will be the T-90 being developed for Russian export customers. It is likely that the remainder 600-odd tanks would be the Al Khalid and Al Khalid-II for the Pakistan Army . The article does not only talk about exports, but also domestic sales. But by 2015 I honestly believe that 1200 Al Khalid and Al Khalid-II tanks will serve in the PA; further increased to 1500 tanks by 2020 and 2000 tanks by 2025.

The possible acquisition of an arbitrary number of (up to) 150 of these machines in addition to an already sizable armour force, including the M1, seems rather odd and is likely linked to a political effort to drag Pakistan further into the Saudi sphere of influence. It's a rich man's world.

maybe. or it could be the fact this is the only tank besides israeli tank markava, that is made specifically for the desert. again specifically for desert. All the other tanks are basically all terrain.

or they are buying it to give pakistani product a more solid position in the world arms. Remember everything comes with no strings attach. the maintenance is cheap. hell they can get pakistani mechanics on contract to keep the machines runnig. And they also know that in case of war these people wont back down.

And how does buying product from us will create more influence. i thought it was the other way around. u buy more from us, u get dependent on us more. this is not fish supply that has to go. these are tanks. u dont wanna buy we wont make it.

remember it is like f-16. we have to make it to meet our own demand but if someone else going to buy it then sure we could use some money. In defence market if the product is good enough for your military, its production will never go in loss. example is f-16 or f-15 etc. but if its not good, it will shut down. example Arjun, even without fully rectifying the problems, they moved to arjun II. so big loses over there.

This would really be good for Pakistan if the deal went through..but a gut feeling tells me that nothing will happen and this is all just talk. (hopefully i'm wrong)

when is the test date?

After having received modifications, many other tanks from colder lands also perform well in desert conditions, for example the UAE Leclercs or the Kuwaiti M-84s.



That's exactly the point: getting Pakistan in on their side in case of conflict or merely negotiations. Saudi-Arabia has always bought arms in order to acquire useful friends that protect or aid them in rough times. Quickly growing Pakistan with her powerful military is of course a useful 'friend' to maintain / enhance Saudi-Arabia's position in the region.

Considering that Saudi Arabia operated some 300-315 each of AMX-30, M-60A3 and M1A2 it makes one wonder:
- Would the Al Khalid be in addition to these or as replacement of one or more of these tank types?
- Why just 150 tanks?

Adding Al Khalid would introduce another layer of logistical complexity. Replacement of AMX-30 would make more sense, possibly replacement of M-60A3 in future as well. But then the order should be around 300 vehicles.

One should also remember that thousands of PA regulars are also stationed in Saudi Arabia. Buying AK thus makes sense. Also SA is increasingly looking to diversifying its weapons procument, as USA and Britain are becoming more hostile towards SA. Also, as one of the members pointed out, AK is specifically made for harsh desert conditions...modifying tanks from colder regions to work in desert climate may make tanks to work in those sort of conditions BUT IT DOES NOT MAKE THEM THE BEST DESERT TANK.

good questions.

why only 150?

well i would say even that is a big amount too for the first entery. but they could be used for many reasons.
1- first training line.
2- break away from american arms.
3- details of AK2 are still coming and looking at AK I would say AK2 will be a good tool to have. And being used to Pakistani tech in advance would be a good idea.
4- their possible enemies will be US (fat chance as of now) or Israel (for sure). And israili know american tanks from inside out.
5- And wouldnt you say that it would be a good replacement for those old amx-30 B2s. with b2 upgrade they might last another 10 years but the tech is not going to last another 5 years. Ak is still better tech so I would go with it.

on question of 150 der is something going on
coz when saudi initially showed interested i remember topics were started here on the forum which i couldnt find now
well initial news mention the figures of 500 tanks thats wat they mentioned
and figure of 150 came into play when pakistan announced it will be stationing its troops in Saudi and also saudi will purchase AL-TALAH and other armoured vechils for the use by pakistan troops..........

so its bit confusing r these tanks for Pakistani troops and as i said first news was 500 odd tanks

why would they buy a tank which is inferior to the tanks which are in current service with them.

why would they buy a tank which is inferior to the tanks which are in current service with them.

Fasal XJ ... 2 main reasons ... AK being very easy to maintain in harsh desert conditions and second since POF has already made another ordinance factory in KSA .. they will also transfer the tech to make the rounds in KSA.

I doubt if Abraham rounds can be made in KSA.

Not to mention, if I gather correctly one of the main conditions of PA troops for KSA was Pakistani equipment.

Not to mention AK is for the second tire of defense which includes high manouverability and also supports the already sensitive approach of KSA for diversification of it's purchases.

Strange that you guys insist on finding a military reason for the Saudi interest in acquiring a small number of the Al-Khalid MBT, while the reason is obviously a political one. I may even go so far as to suggest that it is the prelude to a Saudi request of (covert, if needed) nuclear (and missile) cooperation with Pakistan as a reaction to the altering of the regional balance of power by the future Iranian acquisition of nuclear weaponry. Pakistan has already shown its willingness to spread nuclear secrets and, although now these acts are widely condemned, I doubt Pakistan would say 'no' to a Saudi-Arabia awash with excessive liquidity and substantial oil reserves.

I know there was a talk of Pak military base to be established in Saudia, but is there any truth to it. I mean some of you guys are saying Pakistani troops there as a fact.

I know the SSGs have been there but I don't know if army has been stationed there lately. And if they are then where are they and in how many numbers and what regiments?

nothing wrong with that , this is how all the major weapon exporter sell, but 4 million seems bit to high how much the t90 cost's(my guess 3 million).

I really dont know what the Sauid's are playing at here, first they came to Pakistan to test Al-Khalid and watch the trials in the Rajistan desert, then they watched the trials of the Al-Talha APC, from which they were impressed.

After that, the excuse for not purchasing them was that the KSA were having fianancial trouble, the $200+ billion they still owe to US for GW1. Then out comes the $10 billion Typhoon deal, and now they are again interested. They need to make up thier mind so we can get another production line open we cant fill export orders and home order just from HIT.

We need to market Al-Khalid tank everywhere along with JF17. They both have huge potential, yet thier potential isnt being utilzed.

Hell Al-Khaild is one hell of a tank and for that cost its amazing, everyone should be buying this tank our order books should be over flowing. Pakistan makes some great stuff people need to start buying them.

Trust me Pakistan army dont need to buy any sort of army gear from any other country, when it comes to tanks, APCs, madpads and ATGM (barring the US ones we received) HIT does a pretty good job in keeoing our boys supplied, the only problem is the rate of production its too damn slow.

Chinese Type98/99 is something to think about, but we can get that technology for Al-Khalid II.

You need include the ammo and facilities...

Its good idea to go through the posts first.

SA has 300+ of these
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...6lr%3D%26sa%3DG

and why wouldnt they. after all abrams were PA rejects.


not all of SA tanks are m1A2.

Firstly, the only tank in the RSA that is superior in any way to the AK is teh M1A2. The others are relatively useless, especially when you consider the only country that is in any way likely to come to blows with KSA is Israel. Compared to the Markeva Mk.4 the AMX-30 and M-60A3 are useless to ineffective at best. The M1A2 would have better success, but as the Iraq War showed, in open desert combat, it has drawbacks (it gets stuck in the sand at inoppurtune times). The AK has the ability to go at the Markeva in open desert combat due to its light weight and high speed and manouverability, not to mention accuracy (the Saudis reported 100% accuracy on the move against 5 targets when the tested it a few years back). While it isnt as advanced as the Israeli tank, it does stack up well in open terrain against virtually any tank, and I doubt there is gonna be much urban fighting as far as this senario goes.

As for the political reasons...I doubt this is a prelude to any sort of nuclear transfer...it is 150 tanks which is a far cry from nuclear technology. However, as far as currying favor and influence in Islamabad, I would agree that it is certainly part of the reason. KSA wants to expand its influence in Pakistan and vica versa. With this deal, both will happen. KSA has shown in the past, that it is not adverse to be militarily dependent on potential allies...infact it counts on that. Initially, its dependence on the US/Britain was very favorable for it, but in the post-9/11 world, the realities are somewhat different. KSA wants to broaden its strategic alliances with various nations (Russia, Pakistan, and China being the prominent ones) while improving relations significantly with others aswell (India and yes even Iran). It is in no way planning to let go of the US relationship, but seeks to balance its relations with the US along with these new and growing relations so that it is never overly dependent on any one nation.

However, it is trading military dependence for economic and political influence. Tell me, what other nation has the former US President as a defence advisor (Big Bush is the representative of a conglamorate of US defence companies to KSA)? That is influence. What other nation could have escaped drastic consequences in response to 9/11 (I mean 10 of the 12 terrorists were from KSA originally)? That is influence. KSA has skillfully kept itself relevant to the US by playing instability vs oil prices game and it has won so far. It seeks a similar influence level in Pakistan. It wants to make itself so important to Pakistan (in terms of energy) that Pakistan will use whatever military might it has to defend its stake in the kingdom at all costs. The US defended KSA's oilfields from Saddam because it was in our interest. Similarly, KSA wants to make sure that Pakistan (and other nations) will come to its aid if it is ever in need of them. For KSA, sacrificing its military selfsufficiency is worth the clout that they will get in foreign capitals, and so far they are right.

If that is the case we could expect KSA and Pakistan to buy the same type of hi-tech weaponry (like submarines, helicopters, etc); for all we know the KSA may inquire about Block-52 and 52+ regarding the replacement of F-5s. A joint-purchase with Pakistan would reduce the unit price of the aircraft, allow Pakistani personnel to quickly adapt to Saudi weaponry (and vice-versa) in times of war, etc. Although it is unlikely KSA will fund the majority of a Pakistani purchase from U.S or West, they may give some breathing room to Pakistan by paying initial installments or downpayments.

No way they are useless, as they provide another armored force (together with mechanized infantry formations) that can be used to out manoever the enemy. One could think of attacks to the enemy's flanks, rear or lighter enemy units. Furthermore, not every possible adversary has a large 100% ubermodern armoured force.

Regarding the strange comparison between the AK and M1A2, there does not seem to be a question of replacing the latter with the former. Instead the Saudi's are interested in acquiring an odd lot of AKs for no apparent military reason.




Wake up, Saudi-Arabia does not have a very trusty relationship with most its neighbours or other countries in the region. There is a reason why the small Gulf states bordering only Saudi-Arabia and each other have such large armoured forces and that is not the danger of invasion by a few Iranian light infantry units.



Indeed it tries to bind everyone to them in varying relationships, as it relies on all these partners for its continued existence. The acquisition of a few machines the Pakistani's take pride in producing is of course a great way to deepen such a relationship.

Regarding the strange comparison between the AK and M1A2, there does not seem to be a question of replacing the latter with the former. Instead the Saudi's are interested in acquiring an odd lot of AKs for no apparent military reason.

Once again you seem to totally forget that MIA2 was rejected by Pakistan on the subject of acquisition of shells from America.

M1A2 is known to have problems in the desert and AK is much more versatile and powerful vis-a-vis hp to tonnage.

Thirdly if it was a political issue than why do all those trial runs !

Wake up, Saudi-Arabia does not have a very trusty relationship with most its neighbours or other countries in the region. There is a reason why the small Gulf states bordering only Saudi-Arabia and each other have such large armoured forces and that is not the danger of invasion by a few Iranian light infantry units.

I staying in U.A.E and at times visiting Qatar have never seen any armed tension between Saudia & Qatar.

Although there have been many instances of clashes between these countries & Iran !

Indeed it tries to bind everyone to them in varying relationships, as it relies on all these partners for its continued existence. The acquisition of a few machines the Pakistani's take pride in producing is of course a great way to deepen such a relationship.

AK has not been claimed only by Pakistan but show caused to many military Generals & personnel during the last 3 IDEX of Pakistan and it seems everybody was at awe at Pakistan for being able to manage to bring out such a cheap but effective product.

Pakistan did buy T-90 from russia few years ago.

The M256, just as any other 120mm NATO tank gun, can fire every NATO 120 mm ammunition whether it is US made or not. Furthermore, I think financial constraints may have played a role in this decision.



The problems do not seem to be prohibitive, as otherwise Kuwait and SA would likely have stopped operating the M1A2 years ago. I do not see why the AK would be more versatile than the M1A2. Indeed it has a slightly higher p/w-ratio than the M1A2 (26.06 versus 23.77 according to Jane's), but this comes at a price of course: less ammunition and inferior armour according to estimates based on the discussions at tank-net.
However, more important is that if the Saudi's were dissatisfied with the M1, they have enough cash to acquire the latest French, German, Russian, Korean and Chinese designs instead of settling with a Pakistani derivative of an older Chinese machine.



Come on, have some imagination!! When you have a business meeting, you normally start off with small talk instead of diving immediately into the business matters. The same with diplomacy, it is conducted subtile. The trials give an opportunity to mutually acquint and to let the Saudi's praise the 'fine machine' Pakistan made.



Tension does not have to express itself in the open in the form of armed border clashes, but often stays underground and expresses itself in political power countries possess. These small states guard themselves against Saudi dominance over them. The CSIS lists some more issues:

• Lingering tensions between Bahrain and Qatar, although these seem to be rapidly diminishing.
• A fear of Saudi “dominance” that still affects Qatar and Oman.
• Internal divisions in the UAE and a lingering fear of Omani ambitions to take UAE territory.
• Kuwaiti concern over border issues with Saudi Arabia.
• Saudi Arabia concern over smuggling of arms and explosives across the Yemeni border and the risk Yemen could become a future threat.



I doubt these men would have come to Pakistan to tell the country that it made junk. Furthermore, the Saudi's do not have to settle (and never have) with the most bang for the buck.

Some interesting notes from the CSIS report from 2004:





Most interesting the tanks:


So, where's the military need for even more tanks?

Aoa


it is a politicle move and as someone trightly said that it would also want to increase its relation with china and the likes...



w/salaam

Let's get to the point with the CSIS report:

AN EXCELLENT NEWS FOR H.I.T.Now they will advance in thier R&D project smoothly. REMEMBER AARDIC

Aoa


I agree the saudi have too many suppliers and upgrading thier [old] stock could be hard!


alsoi forgot to ask...




what is meant here?

w/salaam

No it doesn't because most of those PA regulars haven't had an opportunity yet to work on/with the AK, as this has only just started to enter service in PA. So, there is no group experienced with it. Diversify? Saudi's have bought weapons from just about everybody in the West. As for tailor made for desert environment, I don't believe it: the US has as much or more desert as India and Pakistan combined. See table and check map

comon penguin u knw USA would neva deploy dere tanks in dere own deserts .. da amount ov desert in 1s country is no measure ov the specs ov a tank a country makes

The U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground encompasses 831,173 acres, and has nearly 3,000 military, civilian and contractor personnel actively engaged in testing and evaluating a wide range of military equipment and ordinance systems.

Examples of the test center’s defense contributions are numerous. About 100 tests take place at any one time. Examples include:
· Sense and Destroy Armor artillery projectile
· AH-64D Longbow Apache helicopter
· RAH-66 Comanche helicopter
· M-1A2 Abrams tank
· Bradley Fighting Vehicle
· NASA recovery parachute for X-38 spacecraft
· Extended range artillery and tank munitions
· Hellfire, Stinger and Brimstone missiles fired from helicopters
· Palletized Loading System and Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles

All the primary ground weapon systems deployed to Saudi Arabia for Operation Desert Storm underwent exhaustive tests at the proving ground.

US Army Yuma Proving Ground (Arizona)

Climate
Yuma is the hottest city of its size in the United States, with average July high temperatures of 107 degrees Fahrenheit. (By way of comparison, the corresponding figure for Death Valley is 115 degrees.) Average January highs are around 69 degrees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuma,_Arizona#Climate
Average July high temp of 42 degrees celsius...

Yuma desert pic
Another
And another

oops double post


... if you don't have any desert then it is difficult to test your tank in a desert as you would have to go elsewhere. So, the amount of desert in a country is of relevance.

Aoa


yes that is relavent but the palce where the tank would be most likely used is also very important! And apart from the recent few wars [starting from the gulf war] the places US had the likelihood of attack were not mainly desert areas, e.g russia, china etc... also Vietnaam and others too were not desert areas.

w/salaam

What is your point. I said I didn't believe the AK was any more specially designed for desert country than the M1A2.

And as for places the US has the likelyhood of attack, how do Egypt and Saudi Arabia or Somalia sound? Desertlike?

Aoa

you have a point... [no need to get infuriated]


w/salaam