Hello brothers, well Brothers i wanted to ask you all one thing could you give me full detail on Turkish Air Force i mean could you compare Pakistani Air Force and Turkish Air Force just wanted to know which has the edge in the muslim world ! What are our Advantages and Dissadvantages and what are thier Advantages and Disadvantages also please keep in mind our New Air Force while comparing the 2! J-10 , JF-17 , F-16 block 52/ 60 MLU . Whos Air Forces is better ?!

What is this people 36 views no reply and people are voting without Analizying ! I need comparision between the 2 !

Well i guess buddy, that you've put us all in a tight spot! Both Airforces are adored by us, so it'd be suicidal to pass a judgement! Other than that, if you look at it from a very military point of view. Obviously Turkish Airforce has a distinct advantage over Pakistani Airforce for the reasons such as AWACS, BVR, Operational conversion of high valued fighters (Turks have a 200+ F-16 Fleet). But that would remain for just a limited time as Pakistan is now buying and expanding its F-16 fleet. On top of that they will soon be getting the Erieye AEWs, plus the J-10s and the JF-17s.

Clearly on paper Turkey wins, however in actual combat (which determines which air force is better) there are so many factors to take into account that there is no point comparing them.

Firstly Turkey is our brother nation and perhaps our closest ally aside China and Saudi but the comparisons are good for discussion.

I would give the edge to the Turks as their force is far ahead of the PAF in terms of quality, sophisticated weapons and numbers of jets they fly. But with the PAF making major changes we will be on par but by then the Turks will have the JSF….

Long live both nations.

Right now Turkish AF wins man:)look at their F16's first but after induction of J10/F16/JF17 etc PAF will also be comparable to it.

Well what i was thinking is that if Turkey wants can it go aginst the will of USA ? mean having 200 + F-16 is surely an advantage but also it does have a disadvantage i mean can our Turk brothers go aginst the will of America then ? The reasson i am asking this question is because America can stop the suplly of the spare parts right.

On paper yes Turkey does win but if you see in a war poltics is a very important part of todays warefare as well, and what i see is Pakistan does win from the political war as USA wont be able to put us under much presure if compared to Turkey because more then half of thier Air Force is dependent on USA.

Well yes i mean in my Question i said keep the new Air Crafts in mind while comparing Pakistani and Turkish Air Force.

So brothers this is how i see both in matter of Air Craft capability only :

Well if we see Turkish Air Force then F-16 form the back bone and other then F-16 they dont have any other Air Craft which is capable in todays warfare.

These are the Air Craft which Turkey uses :

76 F-16C/D Block 50
104 F-16C/D Block 40
37 F-16C/D Block 30
52 F-4E 2020 Terminator
71 F-4E Phantom
22 RF-4E Phantom
n/a F-5 2000 (48 pre-F-16 trainers under delivery, to be completed by June 2006)
9 (N)F-5A/B Freedom Fighter (Turkish Stars Air Acrobatic Team)

source where i got information from : http://www.answers.com/topic/turkish-air-force

Brothers as you can see Turkey uses Block 50 and Block 40 F-16 and we have ordered Block 52 and Block 60 F-16 which i am sure will give us a Edge.

Other then the F-16 i dont see any other Air Craft in our Turkish brothers Air Force which is useful in todays modern warfare. so yes Turkey does has an Advantage of F-16 but they are Block 50 and Block 40.


Now if we compare the Turkish Air Force with Pakistani Air Force this is what i think as we have ordered F-16 Block 52 and Block 60 and F-16 MLU and if we have a total number of 100-110 F-16 in PAF then i think we have a edge over Turkish Air Force these are Just comparing the F-16s plus when we get J-10 and JF-17 that will allow us to have more better edge over them. The F-4 s and F-5 2000 to be honest has no match for our J-10 or JF-17 so they are out of the question.

As we also know J-10 can take on the modern F-16 this is why we have decreased the number of F-16 from USA, and we compared J-10 with F-16 Block 52/ Block 60 and MLU so I am sure J-10 will surealy have an Edge over the Turkish F-16s i have no doubt in this ! As for F-4s and F-5 2000 i think our Rose Mirage and F 7 Pgs should be enough to take care of them, but even if they are not enough then i am sure most of you will agree with me that JF-17 will surely take care of them there is no doubt about that.

so if we have 100-110 F-16 block 52/ block 62 and MLU and on the top we have about 50-100 J-10, and around about 150 JF-17 and not to forget about 50 Rose Mirage and at least 50 F 7 PG making it s total force of 400-410 Air Craft, in which at least 200-210 Air Craft will have an Edge over the Turkish F-16s and then another 200+ Air craft having the same and a lot wider edge over thier other Air Craft i think Pakistan has a bigger Edge over them.

This is What i think and once we have the capability to launch Curise missiles from our Air Craft i think that would give us even bigger edge over the Turkish Air Force.


Brothers do tell me what you think about this and please correct me if i am wrong Thanks.

Forgive my bad english people.I think you want to know that Turkey's modernizing 117 F-16(block40-50) to F-16(CCIP) and another 100 plane is optional...and Turkey is planning to buy some Euro Fighters(Europeans offered full partnership) until JSF aircrafts will be fully operational...If it was up to me,i wouldnt buy Eurofighters:) they're far more expensive^^

BTW this was my first message...

Wellcome my Turkish brother ! hope you enjoy here. Brother what about Block 30 ? and brother do provide me the link to thoes news as well please i would love to read.


Yes if Turkey does get the Euro Fighter and the JSF then it will be a huge advantage for them and there is no doubt about that.

Right now what i think is Turkey is too depended on America i mean if you see nearly whole of thier Air Force is depended on America so Turkey might have problems while going to war with another country aginst the will of the America !

JSF indeed will be a Great Air Craft not only for you Air Force but also for Navy it will be a huge Advantage. What i personly think is that Turkey needs to buy different type of Air Craft, I mean Turkey only has F-16s in their Air Force right now which is thier main back bone other then that to be honest it is not great, i mean what we are throwing out now it is only that. how ever the reasson i am saying turkey should have at least another type of 4-5 gen aircraft is because J-10 has just came out and it can take on the modern version of the F-16 as i allready explined why we have decreased the number of F-16 ! and in coming years when better version of J-10 and JF-17 come out and when we upgrade them it will be a 5th Gen Fighter there is no doubt about that !

Aslo we have an advantage of Spare parts we will be making them inside Pakistan so we wont have any problem if we go to war how ever turkey on other hand will have problems regarding spare parts and that too from the same country America ! it will be facing quite a few problems in war time !

We were also considering buying Euro Fighter i mean we still are, but that is if Sudia Arbia buy the Euro Fighter only then we will go for it. If you see our J-10 in future it will be the next Euro Fighter Inshallah ! a better one as we will be testing the lunch of Babur Curise missile from the Air !

Brother we might also go for J-XX air craft which is said to be a stealth Air Craft hopefully a 5th Gen Fighter and compareable to JSF .

Yes i agree with you...Turkish airforce is too depended on USA..For Turkey if we put USA a side,then our alternatives are French mig or rafale,russian sukhois or eurofighters as predicted

we dont want to buy russian aircraft because of our army's NATO standarts....also french warplanes are impossible beacuse of politics(french goverment recognized armenian genocide,which is just propoganda)

and as you see we only got eurofighters left,and in my personal opinion turkey cant trust europe in case of war againts greece...

thats way we insist on american aircrafts



but maybe in the future we can cooperate with our brother nation with air force technology(i wish)...

and as i read from several forums,turkey is really interested in babur cruise missile...btw that was a really good job brothers:)



ohh i forgot the link http://www.airforcetimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-809367.php

edit

This is great news for our Turkish brothers, it is best to upgrade the F-16s, i too wish that Turkey gets involed in our Projects, once we have full knowledge and once we are fully capeable of making our own planes such as JF-17 is a start, i wish then we start to make PAK-Turkey Joint Air Craft it will help our turkish brothers to make thier Air Force indepened !

I also heard that Turkey was intresed in buying AL-Khalid tanks, but we heard notthing from Turkey yet and Sudia Arbia too showed a lot of intreset and are planning to buy 150 AL-Khalids for 600 million USD .

Yes well Euro Fighter no doubt is a great Air Craft and will provide a lot of punch in your Air Force, JSF is also very good indeed but it will take more longer.

and about Barbur Curise missile, i am not really too sure if we can sell the Curise missile to another country if it is Turkey then yes sure because we have had good long relations with them and they are liked by the west too so it may not have many problems but yes may be my other Pakistani brothers could say a bit more about this.

Turkey already has teams in Pakistan evaluating the Babur and arranging for technology transfer...Also we should cooperate with our brother nation in terms of Navel development. I like their Milgram Navy craft and they also operate a powerful fleet.

By the way Merhaba selam welcome to the forum brother kaiser_tr.

Going back the topic just looking at the figures Turkey does need to diversify its air fleet as there too much US tech there.

Hmm the news about Al-khalid MBT is not right i think...Right now turkey is modernising about 200 m-60s to m-60 sabras with israel...with this upgrade they will be 3.5 generation tanks...

and turkey will receive 200 leopard2 tanks too...

these sabra modernization and leopard2 deals(both about 400-500 3-3.5 generation tank) are just gapfillers...turkey started to develop its own indigenous MBT...


with our new goverment,turkey started to a lot of indigenous projects such as turkish tank,turkish ship(milgem project,some kind of fast corvette i think),turkish spy satellite(will be launched before 2012),first turkish helicopter(first flight is expected within this year) and many more...

btw turkey will buy 91 attack helicopters(one of tigre,mangusta or rooivalk) and will use its own avionics and software...

if anyone interested with some of this projects i strongly advise to visit ASELSAN's website..its the brain of turkish military electonic industry:)


www.aselsan.com.tr




and again brothers please forgive my english:(

Actually no...Turkey will not buy both Eurofighter and JSF turkey has recently presented a bid between the 2 for 70-150 fighters which would replace the turkish F-4.Turkey also was fedup with the Amrikan TOT of the JSF

Nope, Turkey is going to procure both Eurofighter and JSF; the EF-2000 is meant to help replace the F-4s and F-5s while the JSF replaces older model F-16s.

thanks for the warm wellcome friend

How can you compare the PAF to a bird I vote Paf!!

(lol: i know im being silly )

Hoþ geldiniz

Good to hear of these projects. Keep it up.
And, thanks for the link.

Yes it is needed a great thing for our Turkish brothers, but i do hope we start to get involved in big and huge projects toeghter and imagine what we will be then !

the turkish airforce easily surpass the PAF when we get our hands on the j10s, jf17s and f16s being slightly superior to the turkish airforce the turks will have there JSFs bringing the turkish airforce more superior. on paper the turks are superior but there are alot of factors that dictate who win a air battle so its very hard to tell whos better but on paper and equipment its the turkish airforce.
anyway its very hard to compare 2 airforces it depends on equipment, experience of pilots, morale and alot of other factors so you cant shout out that one airforce is much better than the other.

may the pak-turk relationship increase in strength.

yes but we were just comparing the Air Crafts capeabiloty notthing more. Brothers what i heard is that JSF is having some kind of problems i mean Uk wants to withdraw from the project and as for J-10 and JF-17 i think they are very good Air Craft J-10 allready is capeable of taking on a very mordern F-16 so i have no doubt in coming years may be by 2015 we will be rolling out new models of JF-17 and J-10s so it will be a very advaced Air Craft indeed ! and till that timw we will also have J-XX hopefully it is said it will be a stealth Air Craft lets see what happens ! But yes even Austalia who is putting so much money in to the project nearly billions, will have all the technology and other things of JSF by 2014-2015 so i dont see any one having full pakage of JSF any sonner then 2015 and by that time as i allready said JF-17 and J-10 will be very advanced and till that time hope fully J-XX will be there too.


If we talk about the future of Pakistani and Turkish Air Force then i personly see Pakistani Air Force future is more bighter while considering the projects Pakistan is doing now and Pakistan is willing to make its Air Force indepent i see Pakistani Air Force future much brighter in coming years, as we will be making our own Air Craft from 2007 - 2010 i think Pakistan will onyl work on JF-17 but after 2010 + i think Pakistan will be involed in more projects with China such as J-XX more some other project may be !

Which no one has a doubt about that J-10 , JF-17 will be very advanced fighters in future and no one should have any doubts about the capeablities of the J-XX.

firstly give me a link to prove "the u.k are withdrawing from the project".
turkey are a NATO country and will therefore get the joint strike fighter before australia. turkeys first batches of joint strike fighters should be coming sometime in 2010 same time greece get theres according to a article i read on a greek airforce website.
nevertheless by 2015 JF17 and J10 will be very advanced and deadly.
cant wait till the induction of JXX into the PAF that deadly 5th generation fighter will look great in PAF colours.

Yes brother i too agree even i cannot wait for the JXX in Pakistani colours hopefully by 2015 we will have them ! and as for JSF well i found a articel on the webiste saying this i have also provided a link that is what it says :

AUSTRALIA is facing a further cost blowout on its purchase of next-generation fighters, with Britain threatening to pull out of the US-led joint strike fighter project over Washington's reluctance to share the secrets of stealth technology.

Canberra has not threatened to withdraw from the $256 billion project despite the escalating cost of the warplanes, but says it shares Britain's concerns.

The Defence Department is negotiating with the Bush administration to ensure Australian military and defence contractors have access to software codes and stealth technology to maintain and service the F-35s it is planning to take delivery of in 2014.

A bill introduced to the US Congress in 2003, which would have given Australia and Britain access to otherwise secret technology, has stalled and is unlikely to be revived.

A report in London's Sunday Times newspaper cited Ministry of Defence officials as saying Britain was developing a "PlanB" to purchase an alternative fighter - a modified Eurofighter - for its navy if it cannot overcome concerns over the project costs and technology transfer.

Any pullout by Britain, which has invested $2billion and was slated to buy 150 F-35 aircraft for its air force and navy, would force up the costs for other countries planning to buy the fighter jet.

The JSF project, already plagued by cost overruns, aims to build 2500 of the sensor-evading stealth fighters for the US, and hundreds of others for its allies under the most ambitious program of its kind.

Australia is slated to spend about $16 billion to buy up to 100 F-35s to replace its ageing F/A-18 fleet. But Defence officials warned this week Canberra could buy just 50 if the aircraft becomes prohibitively expensive.

The JSF project has run into other problems, with the Pentagon budget to be slashed by $270million this year and cuts of up to 500 reported in US orders.

Australian Strategic Policy Institute analyst Aldo Borgu said yesterday any pullout by Britain would compound the cost blowouts on the project.

"Though I'm sure the Brits are working overtime to avoid a pullout, if things go pear-shaped it could prove not only a blow to the prestige of the JSF project but also force up the cost of each aircraft for other buyers," Mr Borgu said.

Labor defence spokesman Robert McClelland called on Defence Minister Robert Hill to immediately clarify the status of Australia's bid for the F-35 fighters.

Senator Hill conceded that the US bill that would have provided Australia and Britain with an exemption on technology transfer rules had stalled in the US Congress and said Canberra was investigating other ways to "get around the issue".

"The Bush administration is aware of Australia's and Britain's concerns and they may have discretion under other licensing arrangements to give us access (to the technology)," Senator Hill told The Australian.

He said it was "no secret" that the JSF program could face cuts under Washington's review of its military spending.

Senator Hill conceded Australia might not need to buy as many as 100 fighters "because the fighter would be more capable than anything we've ever seen".

On suggestions the US air force would scrap its orders for the version Australia was interested in, Senator Hill said he understood the USAF was "strongly resisting" the move.

He was also unconcerned at reports of a threatened British pullback from the fighter project, saying Britain was "too heavily committed" to withdraw.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1552013/posts

hmm i must disagree with you...if you examine jf-17's technology you will see that its comparable to F-16 block30 or block 40 and j-10 is almost the same..(i'm sure that they both will be developed in time)

turkey's F-16 CCIP upgrade,has already began and with this modernization they will reach toF-16 block 52 level...

so if i come to conclusion;within 10-12(this long because of JSFs:) ) years turkish air force will consist of

+200 F-16 CCIP

120 Eurofighter-JSF combination

i think it will be a great,big fat air force...



in addition turkey will definitely purchase eurofighters,but we're flirting with both consortiums to get as much as we can(lower prices,more tech transfer extc...)

The PAF's Block-15 F-16 fleet will be reinforced to about 60 aircraft, however there is infrastructure for roughly 100-110 Block-5/10/15s; if the PAF finds used F-16A/Bs in fair condition, it will probably buy them and give them the MLU alongside its current fleet. If we are indeed assuming the best case scenario, the PAF will operate 110 F-16A/BMLU - which is near Block-52 class - and 75 F-16C/D Block-52; in addition to roughly 60-75 J-10s and 150-200 JF-17s by 2019. Both JF-17 and J-10 will go through substantial upgrades and modifications between 2010 and 2019, so it is safe to assume that AESA, advanced ECM/EW systems, and better weapon systems will be added. I think at least 40-50 JF-17s will approach Block-52 avionics and weapons level by then; at least 25-30 PAF J-10s will approach F/A-18E/F level in regards to avionics, payload, manuverability, etc.

However despite this, the PAF will still be a bit behind the Turkish Air Force; however the gap would not be as dramatic or massive as it is today. But for all we know the PAF may start inducting a 4.5 generation J-10 in 2019.

how you can say that pakistan has decided to purchase f-16 block 60 pakistan will buy f-16 block 52+ not 60 there are many diffrence between block 52+ abd block 60 and us not agree to sale block 60 to pakistan and also pakistan not want to buy

Are absolutely correct on that, we've or are about to order 18 F-16 C/D Block-52s, with an option of further 18. The rest are F-16 A/B possibly Block-15 or Block-20 OCUs (can someone confirm that).

this is about 400 aircraft...that's a big,fat impressive airforce too:)


aesa's importance is vital...pakistan must acquire them as soon as possible(as we do)

The cabinet approved the acquisition of up to 77 new built F-16s, used ones will be provided under the U.S EDA program; currently we are going to order 36 Block-52s now, and the rest in a follow-on batch(es).

Brothers i agree with you JF-17 and J-10 will be very advanced in coming year but brother i dont agree with the 2019 i mean i think that J-10 and JF-17 will be very advanced till 2015 ! and any news on J-XX yet i mean between now to 2015 i am sure we will have our hand on J-XX as well like the J-10 we came out suddenly and we ordered it in days ! i think same will happen with J-XX but hopefully Pakistan will be a partner in that like JF-17, what do you people think about J-XX what kind of Air Craft would it be ?!

J-XX will be a highly developed fifth generation fighter that surpasses the current 4.5 generation planes. I'm not sure about any comparisons with the JSF or F-22 though....

Brother here i would disagree Chiness are making this JXX to compete aginst JSF and F-22 Raptor i will show you a articel some of you might allready seen it, and from some other source i have also seen that most say J-XX will be out between 2010-2015 the serial production will start that time and i went to chiness forum most chiness belive that prototype will be out by 2008-2009. Some chiness also belive to have spoten a F-22 over China they showed the pictures well it was like a F-22 i will provide the link for both of them below, and regarding the Gap betwen Turkish and Pakistani Air Force i would say if we get our hands on J-XX between the time scale of 2015-2019 then i think the gap will be very small reasson J-XX will be able to take on JSF , and till that time our J-10 and JF-17 will be very advanced and till 2019 we Inshallah will be making more of our own Fighters which will be a lot better then JF-17.

J-XX Made to compete JSF/F-22 Raptor

J-XX STEALTHY FIGHTER AIRCRAFT

According to the reports of the Jane's Defence Weekly, China has already launched its next generation stealthy fighter aircraft programme, and Shenyang Aircraft Industry Co. (SAC) has been selected to head research and development of a new fighter for the PLA Air Force (PLAAF).

PROGRAMME

According to the report from Jane's, development of the subsystems including the engine and weapon suite for the next generation fighter, which was codenamed by the Western intelligence as J-XX, has been underway for some time. Images of the concepts show a twin-engine aircraft sharing some design traits with Lockheed Martin's stealthy F/A-22 "Raptor" multirole fighter such as the internal carriage of its weapons.

Not too much public information about the programme is available at the moment. The aircraft, which could be designated as J-13 or J-14, is still going through initial concept work, the same stage as the USAF Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) programme in the early 1980s, which later led to the F/A-22 Raptor. Sources within China's confirmed that the SAC is looking at a twin-engine, single-seat, single vertical tale fin design, but other design proposals has yet been ruled out.

As China has developed close ties with Russia's aerospace industry and has license produced many planes of formal Soviet designs, it can be predicted that the J-XX would include some, if not many Russian technologies and designs. China has been offered a 'joint development and production' of a new fifth-generation fighter by Russia known as LFI. Russia has been trying to sell this concept both to China and India for some time, but neither of them has committed fully yet. According to Russian resources, the LFI will be able to counter U.S. second fifth-generation Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). (learn more about Russian fifth-generation fighter demonstrators)

Stealth and thrust vectoring are two must-have features in all aircraft being designed in the 21st century. If is not clear that how much progress Chinese designers have made in these areas, and Chinese aircraft industry may have to take Western/Israeli/Russian helps to make the J-XX truly fouth-generation (or fifth-generation using the Russian standards). Once introduced, the J-12's immediate rival will be U.S. F/A-22, JSF

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/fighter/jxx.asp

and if you go to this some chiness showed the picture taken over chiness buildings which show a Air Craft similar to F-22 Raptor. http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/showthread.php?t=43

Mark i never doubt your credibility brother, it would be beneficial for all of us if you could provide a link to this news! Thanks again buddy!

I use a mix of sources to determine my reasoning, it is not going to be 100% correct; however I deal with sources such as Janes, AFM, and highly credible sources on PakDef - as well as my logic. Anyways according to Janes (link) the Pakistan Government approved the purchase of up to 77 F-16s; it does not tell us whether they are all new or a mix of new and old. However before the tragic Kashmir earthquake (may their souls be spared by Allah) the PAF had an ambitious plan to procure 75 new built F-16C/D Block-52s. Do remember that most used military hardware comes for free now as Pakistan is a non-NATO ally; in other words, Pakistan can pick up weapons under the EDA program for free. Used F-16s fall under the EDA, meaning they will be free except the upgrades and refurbishment.

On PakDef the PAF will buy 18 Block-52s with an option for 18 more, my belief is that in order to bring the unit cost down a tiny bit as well as actually have a strong fleet the PAF will execute the option. According to the Janes article I posted above, a second phase would include 33 additional Block-52s, which would bring the total number to 69; to an air force like PAF and a country like Pakistan, what is an additional 8-11 planes? So I believe the Block-52 numbers will eventually reach the 77-80 mark PAF had originally planned; and the Janes article clearly says Lockheed Martin F-16s. Last I checked the F-16 Block-5/10/15 were originally built by General Dynamics, and the vast majority of them available for purchase are GD aircraft.

I hope that helps bro.

You know what my dream is to have right now as we speak

160 F16 C/D blk 52+
220 JF17 Thunder
40 J10

get ride of everything else

i cannot wait for the J-XX it will be great for us to have our hands on that !

by 2014 the PAF should look like this
100+ f16 block 50/52/mlu
200 JF17s
80 J10s
55< F7PG
50-60 mirage 3/5
total ~480

turkish airforce
(according to this link the CCIP upgrade also upgrades block 50s meaning the CCIP upgrade brings aircraft to above block50/52 capability)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_Air_Force
by 2014 the turkish airforce should look like this
220 F16 CCIP
80+ eurofighters/joint strike fighters
other aircraft

By 2015

Pakistan
55-75 F-16 c/d
60-100 F-16 mlu
150+ JF-17
100+ J-10 c
? 50-60 new fighters

Turkey
200+F-16's
100+ EF-2000/JSF

We cant just say which one is better we must take into account many things

i dont think we will be using F7 PG till 2014 they will all be replaced by J-10 i am sure ! i say we will have over 100 + J-10s replacing all F-7 PGs, and by that time a few prototypes of J-XX will also be out and we will be looking at them and i am sure by that time or if not 2014 then 2015-2019 we will have J-XX !

im just comparing what they will look like in 2014 im not saying one is better than the other.

yes this is right ! i mean we would never have F-7 Pgs till 2015 !

I think this makes more sense and 50-60 New Fighters i think will be J-XX or may be one of our own Air Crafts ! i would put the number of JF-17 at least to 200 but 150 also looks good it is more reallistic ! so yes i agree with these figures!

And turkish Air Force i also agree with thoes figures, i mena i am not too sure about JSF and thier numbers but i am sure about Euro Fighter !
Brother we are not enemies ! we know that we are brothers and we are not ssaying who is better we are just comparing them that is all !

JSF is a good plane so we developing a new plane compare the jsf.It will named J10 modify or J10 stealth fighter.Not the Jxx that Jxx is a plane compare the F22 .The J10 stealth version will finish when 2010-2015 while JXX will finish at 2018-2025.AS to the JSF that more like the f16 of USA and F22 like the f15 .The european fighter(include Russia,Russia break their fighter plane of stealth and supercruise) all lower than JSF that is the reason why they purchase it.Neither the EF2000's airframe nor Rafale's can support the full stealth ability.They must develop a new fighter compare the stealth fighter.The JF-17 is a half stealth fighter that the j10 stealth fighter's a sort of achievement of reasearch used.When JSF induct at 2012 the j10 stealth version also do.

Guys also do not rule out the close Turkish-Chinese cooperation. Turkey is reportedly buying WS-1B MLRS system from the Chinese and is also looking for Turkish assistance with other projects. Who knows, one day both PAF and TuAF may have the same front-line Chinese aircraft aside from the current Viper.

well i agree that could happen and yes i agree with princebuster0 i mean till that time J-10 as i have allready said many times will be a very advaced fighter as well as JF-17 it took 7+ years to build JF-17 so another 12-15 years are more then enough time to improve every thing the JF-17 lacks ! as well as J-10 now J-10 has just came out and it can take on the modern F-16 remember this is why we have reducded the number of F-16 which we are buying from USA ! so in 12-15 years ofcourse J-10s new version will come out and they will be deadly !

yes i agree may be in near future Turkey might start to look at Pak and China fo its defence there is a posibility !

Hello brothers,
I just wanted to post some pics from anatolian eagle 2006 in my first message.

LINK
Short translation (sorry for my eng.)
1. Tanvir M. Ahmed discussed to upgrade PAF F-16 block 15s in Turkey in his visit for anatolian eagle 2006. (Turkey will upgrade her F16s)
2. Pakistan would get offer from Turkey for developing avionics of 150 JF-17. That could be a base for joint-production of future aircrafts.
3. Pakistan could join Turkey's attack heli purchase to lower costs while their mission computers will be Turkish indengious and most probably production line also would be in Turkey.
4. Turkey and Pakistan will develop and produce UAVs, production most probably would be in Pakistan while Turkey will supply electronic warfare equipments.

TAI (Turkish Aerospace Industry)

Notice the ranks of ACM!
A surprising change is expected to come in AF in a couple of months

Public Enemy selam brother welcome to the forum.

Thanks for the fantastic pictures and the news about the joint cooperation between our air forces.

Long live TURKISH AND PAKISTANI BROTHERHOOD!

Thanks to all brothers for warm welcome ,
Please bear in mind in your appreciations about a military that the training facilities and high-standarts maybe more important than comparing bare weapons.
weapons x effectivity of usage of weapons = (%) total power output
And Turkey one of the world's important ones on this subject and glad that our training facilities, academies are open to all allies, friendly and brother nations, our officers are up to help the increase standarts of them.