Pakistani Defence Forum > 12 F-16s Have Been Delivered To Pakistan

JF 17 Thunder

Apr 15 2007, 12:15 PM

‘Pakistan to start JF-17 production from next year’
Saturday, March 31, 2007

KAMRA: The serial production of JF-17 Thunder Aircraft will start from next year, said Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief Tanveer Mahmood Ahmad on Friday.

Briefing reporters at the Kamra Aeronautical Complex about the jet and its production plans, he said that in the first phase, 15 of the jets would be jointly produced with Chinese assistance and then PAF would raise 10 to 12 squadrons of 200 to 250 of the jets by 2015 if adequate funding was available. ...

... “Talks are also underway with China for purchasing more advanced J-10 jet fighters as well,” he said. He said that the US had delivered 12 refurbished F-16 jets, while 18 new F-16 would be purchased in the first and second quarter of 2010. To a question, he said that Indian MIG–29s were not a “serious concern” to the PAF, since “our warplanes are equal to them in all respects”. online

Daily Times

GreenBeret

Apr 15 2007, 12:56 PM

I think its a typo by newspaper...just a guess.

safee

Apr 15 2007, 12:56 PM

refurbrished means with MLUs?

ZPak

Apr 15 2007, 01:09 PM

True, I think its a typo by the reporter. Only 2 refurbished one's have been delievered.

Sharif Smuggler

Apr 15 2007, 01:17 PM

May be he meant that 12 have been allocated to the PAF from the USAF/USAN. But not yet actually handed over

QUOTE

To a question, he said that Indian MIG–29s were not a “serious concern” to the PAF, since “our warplanes are equal to them in all respects”. online

Its the Su-30MKIs that are of concern! Though to be honest, with HMS (and high off bore WVR AAM), BVR (SD-10 and AMRAAM) and support of AWACS, PAF can take on the MKIs. But what do we do against their strike capabilities?

Mark Sien

Apr 15 2007, 01:27 PM

USAF agreed to allocate its 12 ex-Peace Gate III/IV F-16A/Bs to the PAF; the ACM may have said that the 12 USAF aircraft have been handed over to Pakistan in the U.S. They will likely head to Turkey now. The only problem regarding the used F-16s is the USN's reluctance to provide its 14 ex-Peace Gate aircraft to Pakistan. If things do not work out with them, then I imagine either additional new-built C/Ds will be bought OR a greater number of less airworthy used A/Bs from USAF.

The F-16A/B airframes come for free under the EDA program, Pakistan just pays for the refurbishment and upgrades.

GreenBeret

Apr 15 2007, 11:33 PM

QUOTE(Mark Sien @ Apr 16 2007, 12:27 AM) [snapback]890490[/snapback]

USAF agreed to allocate its 12 ex-Peace Gate III/IV F-16A/Bs to the PAF; the ACM may have said that the 12 USAF aircraft have been handed over to Pakistan in the U.S. They will likely head to Turkey now. The only problem regarding the used F-16s is the USN's reluctance to provide its 14 ex-Peace Gate aircraft to Pakistan. If things do not work out with them, then I imagine either additional new-built C/Ds will be bought OR a greater number of less airworthy used A/Bs from USAF.

The F-16A/B airframes come for free under the EDA program, Pakistan just pays for the refurbishment and upgrades.

Id say PAF should go for new C/D if USN shows notions.one thing more Mark Sien,what SEAD mission weapons does PAF has or will aquire?HARM?

viper`in`style

Apr 16 2007, 12:52 AM

QUOTE(GreenBeret @ Apr 16 2007, 12:33 AM) [snapback]890747[/snapback]

Id say PAF should go for new C/D if USN shows notions.one thing more Mark Sien,what SEAD mission weapons does PAF has or will aquire?HARM?

Ya AGM-88 with HTS good for SEAD Normaly f-16 employs HARM anti-radiation missiles and cluster bombs to neutralize or destroy air defense sites. A HARM targeting system pod (HTS )provides autonomous, reactive anti-radar capability.

GreenBeret

Apr 16 2007, 12:58 AM

QUOTE(viper`in`style @ Apr 16 2007, 11:52 AM) [snapback]890779[/snapback]

Ya AGM-88 with HTS good for SEAD Normaly f-16 employs HARM anti-radiation missiles and cluster bombs to neutralize or destroy air defense sites. A HARM targeting system pod (HTS )provides autonomous, reactive anti-radar capability.

do we have or are we getting HARM?do we have any Chinese weapons for SEAD ops?

viper`in`style

Apr 16 2007, 01:43 AM

QUOTE(GreenBeret @ Apr 16 2007, 01:58 AM) [snapback]890780[/snapback]

do we have or are we getting HARM?do we have any Chinese weapons for SEAD ops?

AGM-45 SHRIKE ,AGM-88 HARM ,AGM-65 MAVERICK and we can it with ALTIS french pod

faz101

Apr 16 2007, 04:52 AM

AFAIK we currently don't have any SEAD capability and i haven't heard us asking the US for it either. I have heard rumours of a chinese ARM which we might buy....hopefully!

umiqum

Apr 16 2007, 08:31 AM

QUOTE(faz101 @ Apr 16 2007, 06:52 AM) [snapback]890842[/snapback]

AFAIK we currently don't have any SEAD capability and i haven't heard us asking the US for it either. I have heard rumours of a chinese ARM which we might buy....hopefully!

Isn't Babur a SEAD capability?

viper`in`style

Apr 16 2007, 08:59 AM

QUOTE(faz101 @ Apr 16 2007, 05:52 AM) [snapback]890842[/snapback]

AFAIK we currently don't have any SEAD capability and i haven't heard us asking the US for it either. I have heard rumours of a chinese ARM which we might buy....hopefully!

What Pakdef said we have AGM-88 and can use it with ALTIS and also u forgot AGM-65,we have and can be use full for SEAD

AGM-88

shabi1

Apr 16 2007, 11:55 AM

I'm really hoping that in the future the Babur cruise missile can be mounted with an anti radiation warhead and employed as a SEAD weapon. Even with a reduced range of say 250km it can cause alot of damage.
The Babur has great promise for the Pakistani Armed services. I'm sure there are already efforts to modify it with an anti ship warhead.

m.a.baig

Apr 16 2007, 06:00 PM

hi everyone,

i have a question that bothers me alot. please explain to me why, i mean why are old useless F-16s so important for Pakistan?

why can't they get some other type of aircraft from some other country?

i mean whats the logic in this whole obsession with the F-16s?

why can't we live without F-16s?

is there no other option for Pakistan at all?

Mark Sien

Apr 16 2007, 06:15 PM

QUOTE(m.a.baig @ Apr 16 2007, 08:00 PM) [snapback]891112[/snapback]

hi everyone,

i have a question that bothers me alot. please explain to me why, i mean why are old useless F-16s so important for Pakistan?

why can't they get some other type of aircraft from some other country?

i mean whats the logic in this whole obsession with the F-16s?

why can't we live without F-16s?

is there no other option for Pakistan at all?

You'll need to do some research on the MLU3 and Block 52+ - as well as find the comparisons of technology, weapon-systems, etc, it uses with that of the Mirage 2000-5Mk2. Also look up at the JHMCS and AIM-9X or IRIS-T combinations. If you check that much, then you should get a minimal idea of why PAF is "obsessed" with the "old useless F-16s".

baltoro

Apr 17 2007, 05:30 AM

QUOTE(m.a.baig @ Apr 16 2007, 08:00 PM) [snapback]891112[/snapback]

hi everyone,

i have a question that bothers me alot. please explain to me why, i mean why are old useless F-16s so important for Pakistan?

why can't they get some other type of aircraft from some other country?

i mean whats the logic in this whole obsession with the F-16s?

why can't we live without F-16s?

is there no other option for Pakistan at all?

pakistan choses to use f-16's because of ther relaibility, and good perfomance. And btw, pakistan isnt the only country that uses f-16s as the primary source of air power. other countries liek poland, norway, thailand, egypt, turkey also use it.

JF 17 Thunder

Apr 17 2007, 06:49 AM

But isn't America about to phase them out in a year or two? Where will Pakistan get the parts for F-16s then? And I also agree with the brother who asks why is Pakistan obsessed with F-16s? Why not purchase maybe about 20 F-15s or F-18s? Why does it only have to be F-16s?

Personally I think, Pakistan should just cancel the F-16s deal and buy as many J-10s as possible even if that means a reduced number.

shahid_2dk

Apr 17 2007, 07:58 AM

QUOTE(JF 17 Thunder @ Apr 17 2007, 06:49 AM) [snapback]891346[/snapback]

But isn't America about to phase them out in a year or two? Where will Pakistan get the parts for F-16s then? And I also agree with the brother who asks why is Pakistan obsessed with F-16s? Why not purchase maybe about 20 F-15s or F-18s? Why does it only have to be F-16s?

Personally I think, Pakistan should just cancel the F-16s deal and buy as many J-10s as possible even if that means a reduced number.

America is likely to replace their fighters with F-35 and F-22.

F-35 replacing F-16 and various others I think. But that will only START to happen when the F-35 is ready. And replacement will take a long time.

Also sparepart production for F-16 isn't going to shut down as USAF outphases F-16. Many firms outside the US produce many spareparts for the F-16, and the US based firms earn something when other firms produces/sells sparepart under license.

Poland has recently bought a number of F-16 blk50/52+, they wouldn't have if they can't get spareparts in the future, same goes for PAF.

This deal also refurbishes/ updates the current PAF F-16 to MLU3(?).

Mark Sien

Apr 17 2007, 03:29 PM

QUOTE(JF 17 Thunder @ Apr 17 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]891346[/snapback]

But isn't America about to phase them out in a year or two? Where will Pakistan get the parts for F-16s then? And I also agree with the brother who asks why is Pakistan obsessed with F-16s? Why not purchase maybe about 20 F-15s or F-18s? Why does it only have to be F-16s?

Personally I think, Pakistan should just cancel the F-16s deal and buy as many J-10s as possible even if that means a reduced number.

It will take at least a decade before the U.S manages to replace all its F-16s. Even after USAF F-16s are gone, they'll still be in service with Greece, Turkey, UAE, Israel, Pakistan, etc, - so production of spare-parts will continue. The reason why the F-16s were purchased was because they offered the best deal at the lowest price - believe it or not. Dassault/France was not willing to provide the same level of technology on the Mirage 2000-5 that Lockheed Martin/U.S was on the F-16C/D. F/A-18s would have required a completely new logistical set up, and the F-15s would have been a lot more expensive than the F-16s - assuming the U.S agrees to release the Eagles.

MrBond

Apr 18 2007, 05:29 AM

QUOTE(Sharif Smuggler @ Apr 15 2007, 08:17 PM) [snapback]890482[/snapback]

But what do we do against their [Su-30MKI] strike capabilities?

Effective air defence i.e. round the clock AEW/AWACS cover, modern SAM systems and BVR-armed interceptors.

safdar

Apr 18 2007, 12:29 PM

So..is it true that there are 12 F-16s in Pakistan? Or is it just a mistake! is there any other news stating the same? Could it be true that there are 12 in Pakistan but not yet inducted in PAF?

Mark Sien

Apr 19 2007, 01:54 PM

QUOTE(safdar @ Apr 18 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]891968[/snapback]

So..is it true that there are 12 F-16s in Pakistan? Or is it just a mistake! is there any other news stating the same? Could it be true that there are 12 in Pakistan but not yet inducted in PAF?

Well one thing is for sure, USAF has agreed to release the 12 ex-Peace Gate F-16s to PAF - while USN has not with regards to its 14.

umar

Apr 20 2007, 10:22 AM

the 18 f-16 c/d block 52+ that we will recieve will have joint helmet mounted cueing system
so that is one advantage we have over su-30mki in a dogfight

QUOTE(JF 17 Thunder @ Apr 17 2007, 01:49 PM) [snapback]891346[/snapback]

But isn't America about to phase them out in a year or two? Where will Pakistan get the parts for F-16s then? And I also agree with the brother who asks why is Pakistan obsessed with F-16s? Why not purchase maybe about 20 F-15s or F-18s? Why does it only have to be F-16s?

Personally I think, Pakistan should just cancel the F-16s deal and buy as many J-10s as possible even if that means a reduced number.

i say we should of cancelled f-16 deal and buy as many rafales as we can and still get 36 j-10 a/b

vikasrehman

Apr 20 2007, 05:23 PM

QUOTE

i say we should of cancelled f-16 deal and buy as many rafales as we can and still get 36 j-10 a/b

To get as many rafales as new F-16s and operating them would be at least twice as expensive as the former.

faz101

Apr 20 2007, 06:08 PM

QUOTE(vikasrehman @ Apr 20 2007, 05:23 PM) [snapback]892908[/snapback]

To get as many rafales as new F-16s and operating them would be at least twice as expensive as the former.

exactly. you can't just buy a new a/c without buying the required training and maintainence package which will work out to be way more expensive for us. stick with the F-16s until more advanced options come on the table IMHO.

P.S. Babur doesn't have a SEAD capability per se but the missile can be targetted at any air defence network and take out the radars hence making the enemy blind but AFAIK it doesn't have an anti-radiation seeker as yet.

GreenBeret

Jun 5 2008, 09:59 AM

QUOTE(faz101 @ Apr 21 2007, 05:08 AM)

P.S. Babur doesn't have a SEAD capability per se but the missile can be targetted at any air defence network and take out the radars hence making the enemy blind but AFAIK it doesn't have an anti-radiation seeker as yet.

What about ra'ad :) i think that can serve the purpose

Sarmad

Jun 5 2008, 06:07 PM

‘Pakistan to start JF-17 production from next year’
Saturday, March 31, 2007

you do realise that the report is over a year old, right? I am sure that is not true. 12 refurbished F-16s could have been ALLOCATED for the PAF, but not received.

airomerix

Jun 7 2008, 04:57 AM

QUOTE(Sharif Smuggler @ Apr 16 2007, 12:17 AM)

May be he meant that 12 have been allocated to the PAF from the USAF/USAN. But not yet actually handed over
Its the Su-30MKIs that are of concern! Though to be honest, with HMS (and high off bore WVR AAM), BVR (SD-10 and AMRAAM) and support of AWACS, PAF can take on the MKIs. But what do we do against their strike capabilities?

F-16C/D Block 52s have a far more superior strike capability then any other russian/chinese platform.

They carry Sniper XR pod, precesion guided bombs, self propelled/glider bombs, missiles like HARM, AGM-65G, AGM-84 Harpoon, GBU 16/12, MK-12/20 just wipe out all the obstacles in ones way. Where as the JDAMs also spice up the capability, once dropped, they penetrate the ground and leave nothing except black mud.

airomerix

Jun 7 2008, 05:00 AM

QUOTE(viper`in`style @ Apr 16 2007, 12:43 PM)

AGM-45 SHRIKE ,AGM-88 HARM ,AGM-65 MAVERICK and we can it with ALTIS french pod

Now forget Altis, look forward for Sniper XR pod. It is truely a next generation targeting system, even it comes standard on F-22A Raptors and F-15E Strike Eagles.

airomerix

Jun 7 2008, 05:05 AM

QUOTE(JF 17 Thunder @ Apr 17 2007, 05:49 PM)

But isn't America about to phase them out in a year or two? Where will Pakistan get the parts for F-16s then? And I also agree with the brother who asks why is Pakistan obsessed with F-16s? Why not purchase maybe about 20 F-15s or F-18s? Why does it only have to be F-16s?

Personally I think, Pakistan should just cancel the F-16s deal and buy as many J-10s as possible even if that means a reduced number.

If we only look forward on long term aquistion then J-10 is the right choice. And if we look forward for capabilities, Then F-16s are the winners of the contest.

The F-16 Block 52s/MLU-3s are FAR more superior to J-10s. The AMRAAMs, sidewinders, JDAMS, HARMs, JHMCS, JHMS, APG-68v9 radar, Sniper XR pod just cross all the russian and chinese fighters.

Thats y we are considering F-16s but in small numbers, soo that the enemy may think that PAF also uses F-16s besides J-10s!!

Londo Molari

Jun 7 2008, 10:17 PM

Any word on whether any AMRAAMs have been delivered to PAF yet?

Rehan_Aviation Artist

Jun 8 2008, 11:07 AM

AOA,

I think Getting AMRAAM will take another 1-2 years. If relations remain the same.

In my opinion J-10 is as advanced than JF-17, as F-7PG to F-7P.

Both have single engine, same number of pylons.

I dont think it is a major punch.

We still need a true 4.5 generation fighter.

Allah hafiz

aziqbal

Jun 8 2008, 11:41 AM

Who cares F16 is just a side show the real fighters of the Pakistan Air Force are the JF17 and J10.

HAROON RASOOL

Jun 19 2008, 12:44 AM

Are we ready for the F-16 show next week?

Best of the Best

Jun 19 2008, 12:50 AM

QUOTE(HAROON RASOOL @ Jun 19 2008, 01:44 AM)

Are we ready for the F-16 show next week?

What do you mean by that, i am a bit lost?

airomerix

Jun 19 2008, 04:54 AM

QUOTE(HAROON RASOOL @ Jun 19 2008, 11:44 AM)

Are we ready for the F-16 show next week?

What do u mean? Will be there any air show helding in Pakistan??

PafAce01

Jun 19 2008, 09:19 PM

I think he means the arrival and touchdown of the F-16 at 28th June on pakistani Soil.

_kiLLuminati_

Jun 20 2008, 01:04 AM

Is there any pictures of the aircrafts that have been delivered?

SUNNY92

Jun 20 2008, 07:56 AM

QUOTE(HAROON RASOOL @ Jun 19 2008, 12:44 AM)

Are we ready for the F-16 show next week?

Until the arrival of the block 52 C/Ds, i think i will leave the champagane on ice.

HAROON RASOOL

Jun 20 2008, 05:10 PM

QUOTE(SUNNY92 @ Jun 20 2008, 02:56 PM)

Until the arrival of the block 52 C/Ds, i think i will leave the champagane on ice.

Today my source told me that something's wrong with the delivery of these aircrafts. Uncle Sam is not very happy with our duties.

airomerix

Jun 20 2008, 11:53 PM

The pentagon officials remember the pressler ammendment as the mistake done by them. I dont think they will again try to perform a stage show!

HAROON RASOOL

Jun 21 2008, 02:18 AM

QUOTE(airomerix @ Jun 21 2008, 06:53 AM)

The pentagon officials remember the pressler ammendment as the mistake done by them. I dont think they will again try to perform a stage show!

Airomerix! Indeed true according to the agreements. But you know that Laws are made to be broken. We were the frontline state as well during the cold war as we are now. But as soon as the cold war ended we were kicked out from all the treaties. You may say that Pakistan itself aborted the SEATO and CENTO/METO treaties but indirectly the meaning was the same. If you look at the current scenario we are standing back again in the very Past. USA and its allies have captured/conquered Iraq and Afghanistan, the axis of evil, and have installed puppet governments over there. And our services are no more required by our masters. The top generals have bagged a huge sum of money and you would see another Westridge somewhere in the heart of Rawalpindi and Islamabad. But the real losers are the common people of Pakistan who had, have and would suffer for some time to come. Peace.

SUNNY92

Jun 21 2008, 12:31 PM

QUOTE(HAROON RASOOL @ Jun 21 2008, 02:18 AM)

Airomerix! Indeed true according to the agreements. But you know that Laws are made to be broken. We were the frontline state as well during the cold war as we are now. But as soon as the cold war ended we were kicked out from all the treaties. You may say that Pakistan itself aborted the SEATO and CENTO/METO treaties but indirectly the meaning was the same. If you look at the current scenario we are again standing again back in the very Past. USA and its allies have captured/conquered Iraq and Afghanistan, the axis of evil, and have installed puppet governments over there. And our services are no more required by our masters. The top generals have bagged a huge sum of money and you would see another Westridge somewhere in the heart of Rawalpindi and Islamabad. But the real losers are the common people of Pakistan who had, have and would suffer for some time to come. Peace.

It's true the Yanks are purely fair weather friends, but kind of early to jump to conclussions!