USA,Russia,China,Germany,France,Britian

What kind of submarines are we talking about - SSK, SSBN, SSGN, SSN?

Im a big fan of the RNs SSN Astute Class, i hear thats some powerful hardware, in regards to SSKs i would vote for Japans Oyashio and Swedens Gotlands

Whichever ones your taking about its the US all the way.

I heard that Britain is developing a beastly nuclear sub, saw a show on the History Channel. If I find any news I can will link it up.

Germany is the best and the oldest sub maker. They are second to none in Sub making.

If Nuclear then USA.

If Electric Diesel then Germany followed very closely by France.

nuclear - US
diesel - Japan/Australia

I heard the Australian Colin class submarines were mired with problems.

No one mention Russian sub. i think Russian nuclear subs are best

US is two generation ahead in nuclear tech and sensors for submarines from other advanced countries like Russia and France. But as they dont make SSK, it is lead by France and Germany.

What are the prospects of Pakistan making a nuke sub? I have been hearing rumours about these and rumours do have some basis in truth so...

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in SSK-capability u.s.a is not very advanced

but i agree with ur statement.

i have a question...what is the use of pakistan having nuclear submarines?...i know it has longer distance but wat is the use in battle?...is it undetectable?...or wat...if someone can answer that...

nueclear USA
non Nueclear Germany

Nuclear submarines the US hands down and for large diesel subs.
For small diesel subs i would say Germany.

The US has the best subs overral nuclear and diesel thats why i voted US.

If it is a proper nuclear sub (meaning a modern one) you will be able to stay submerged for a very long time. The reason Pakistan might want one is that if they can make Babur sub launched then they can have a legible 2nd strike for their nuclear warheads. This will create more deterence for anyone that might think about attacking Pakistan.

I seriously think the Japanese make great subamrines. I've heard great things about the Oyashio-class subs. Sweden too, very quiet SSKs. I'll vote for Germany though since I think they have some of the best SSKs in the world, and look at how many U-209s and U-214s you have in the world.

The last time the US made a diesel submarine was back in WWII. The US leads in the nuke sub field, but are far behind in the diesel-electric submarine field.

y would they want to make diesel submarines?...i don't think they have a use for them...well i asked wat else is speciality of a nuclear submarine except being submerged in water soo long...like does it have more capabilities...i think PN needs nuclear submarines in the next 10 years and should be included in there moderization program...

Where's Japanese? Their diesel submarines are much more advanced than China's and Russia's.

would Russia need diesal submarines...they have nuclear submarines...so i don't they care...

WHy pak need a nuke sub?

The American Seawolf class are the most powerful submarines in the world. Alongwith that the American Virginia and 688I and 688II classes also remain among the world's best. The only submarines which can compare to Virginia and 688's are the Royal Navy Trafalgar and Astute classes and Russian Akula II.

However the Seawolf is superior to all of these.

Except for propulsion and minor design changes, a nuke powered submarine isnt much different from a diesel powered sub specially the electronics.
With the superiority in electronics and sub design that US has, it would be very easy for US to apply that knowledge in a diesel sub.
So I dare say that if US were to build a conventional powered sub for its own navy, it could turn out to be the best sub in the world.

the Astute once it is inducted will be the most advanced sub in the world....(that's not just me saying that but people intimately involved in the development programme).

The Swedish Gotland's are superb machines. I believe they use a sterling engine for propulsion. They're so good the US navy leased one for a couple of years, apparently to practice ASW against a super-quiet non-nuclear sub.

I honestly don't know... but when it comes to the Navy Britian is always a good bet.

2DREZQ, nice to see you back.

I can give you pages and pages of evidence proving that Rusky nuclear subs suck, like all the rest of their indigenous creations. But, of course, I don't have time. So let's just say the Russian submarines are full of problems, particularly the nuclear reactors they house.

why not Pakistan buy submarine from China ?

because the chinese are still perfecting their sub technology and , with all due respect to any chinese here, their sub technology hasn't been very impressive until perhaps very recently.

At think point and time we shouldnt buy Submarine from them China, for Subs we should look West I think its a while before Chinese Subs will be good.

Chinese Yuan class SSK is a good sub but it doesnot not fit in PN keeping in view the Indian procurments of Scorpien SSK.U-214 is best sub to join PN and it will continue the sub advantage of PN in SA.Agosta-90B were with TOT and now U-214s will also be with TOT.PN had learn alot by Agosta program and will learn more by U-214 project.In future after 2015 there is a possibility that Pakistan and China will start a JV to develop a submarine.Chinese tech will also improve during that time and PN knowing western latest tech will assure a quality and modern submarine project between Pakistan and China.

Ya the Sino-Pak defense relationship is solid. It is actually quite smart what they are doing. China is building a domestic arena to build products, and so is Pakistan. China is getting tech from Russia, and we are getting tech from the West. So in the end we will have the knowledge of both sides and can make a very high quality product. It may not work in the short run, but is a brilliant plan for the long.

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as far as SSk capabilities go, germany is head & shoulders above the rest.

having said that i must confess that the chinese r fast catching up

Smart thing then that we are buying our subs from Germany, and are getting full ToT. It will help us, and China in that field.

It's to risky signing on as myself when I'm out on a black op tracking down extra-terrestrial terrorists using technology beamed out of area 51 by commander x.

I'd leave one of my alternate personalities at home to monitor the web and answer email, but they all want to go with me wherever I go.

No matter what differences one has with past discussions its allways good to see an old face back.

Mmm, you're underrating the Swedes, really. Dutch subs are not too shabby either. It's just that we don't manage to sell them, so it get to expensive to develop any new ones. Same goes for Sweden. This is what the Germans do well, they sell and licence so they can keep developing new models. Same for France. Uk made Upholder class, which are good, but did not continue SSK. Japan is a serious, very experienced player in this field too. As are the Russians. Lucky the japanese don't export. So, choice essentially is between the Germans, French and Russians. Germans are more advanced, Russians more creative. French in between.

i would say that the Russian subs are just cheap and also overly advertised and over hyped (also having the ability to fire Club raised its profile). In terms of accoustic performance, still not as good as the Western ones.

Yeath ,By that time china & Pakistan can benifit from each other,but now i think especialy this recent years china SSk become better than before,pakistan

should be keep believe to china.

Brother, I agree with U,in that case both china and pakistan will be powerful in navy building .

penguin .....which dutch subs r u talking about ????

Japan sould in rank 3 or 4

ofc, it is the american sub, don't you realise that america has the best navy in the world ?

SSK/SS the U.S. has not been in the Diesel Electric submarine business for several decades I think the last one was the USS Bonefish in the Early 1950's. The US does not build or operate Diesel Submarines anymore. Thank you Admiral Rickover.

If you are lumping Diesel Subs with Air Independent Power/Propulsion Submarines then you are looking at the French with the MESMA (the Agosta 90B) The Marlin, the Collins and a few others, The Germany 212/214 and I think Japan. But this is a young technologies and are just starting to iron out the problems and growing pains... ask the Greeks and the Pakistan Navy how their AIP submaines have performed lately.

Nuc Subs. I believe that US and Brit Nucs are the quietest not to say Russian aren't quiet I just think the ASW sensors on US and UK nuc subs are better for counter detecting other submarines.

http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/classes/class_zwaardvis2.htm (decommed)
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/export/expo...ung_hailung.htm (in service ROC/Taiwan)
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/classes/class_walrus2.htm (in service RNthN)
http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/export/export_moray.htm (design)

I think today we've got design expertise only, no longer actively desiging and building. Our indigenous submarine force will likely cease to exist when the current 4 Walrus boats reach the end of their service life (unless we get an import).
http://www.nti.org/db/submarines/netherlands/index.html

By the way, you've all left out Sweden as a producer of SSKs.

so if American subs are the best, why haven't we bought any 1 in the last 60yrs.
Can we or not buy them like Taiwan and other countries.