daily load shadding of 15 hours !!!! in whole punjab , industry have been stoped.

Aoa

Maybe 8 years weren't enough.

w/salaam

i fear what will happen in june,may,july .... ! hot weather ..
i wonder that mushy not insisting for nuclear deal with other countires..

I agree... it is a fu***d up situation. Even in my village they dont have power supply at this time especially wheat crop is going to be ready We seriously
need these dams ready like Kalabagh and others....

Damns, clean coal- and natural gas powerplants, wind mills and solar cells needed.

But how come there still is problems with this?
We have to stop the problem immediately, not surprisingly this is a HUGE barrier for live standard and investment/industri.

15 hours!? That is just CRAZY!! Someone stop the corrupt people in this branch and someone get their asses moved to fix this... (<--- That was an appeal to anyone capable of doing anything...)

Yes 15 hours.... can you imagine, it was opposite some time ago. We had 15 hours electricity and rest of the time there was load shedding. Now because of those mofos, who think dams will harm them, the situation has worsen. Our most productive 'suba' is going down. This the last thing we need on our hands especially in such hard times

Aoa


What has been done since the last year? what initiatives did the Goverment take to solve the problem... it was big last year as well.

w/salaam

Well its wrong to say that its because of the people who are against dams.

There are a MILLION other ways to produce electricity in a very reasonable way, but heck, nothing has been done about that. And then there are those who throw some cables to the power supply lines and "steal" the bichly...

in my city timing of load shadding ..
6:00 suba sa 10:00 phir 11:30 sa 2:30 phir 3:30 sa 6:30 tak phir 8:00 sa raat 12:00 tak.. so on... whole night

Part of the problem is when your own citizens strive hard to stop you from building any dams, and it also doesn't help when your own people run riot and burn down half of the country's infrastructure in 4 days and we have a leader who comes on TV to cry about it rather than making a example of a few of these anarchists.

and before someone mentions that Mushy is no longer in charge of the army, your telling me one phone call to Kiani's office wouldn't yield any results?

On top of that this is a problem that has got worse rather then better from the beginning of Pakistan's history, and like a few other ills such as poverty, illiteracy, and terrorism its not likely to go away soon....we cant address these problems in isolation anymore.

Punajb never oppose Dams. you should know if PPPP need to win or altaf want to win from punjab then they need to do national politice not sobayee politice. Punjab never say bad to other provinces becasue in punjab politice not become famous by doing soobaye siast.


it is Taffo terrorist and PPPP. PPPP oppsing b coz they dont want that mushy make kalabag dam and he become famous in the histroy.
taffo oppsing b coz he against the creation of PAkistan ... etc..

Supply is constant, demand has increased exponentially. It didn't take a genius to figure out this would happen. Nothing can be done right now, people will suffer.

A few suggestions;

• Swap your jeans and your shirts and ties for Salwar Kameez. I'm always amazed at how Pakistani's wear Denim any chance they get. About 8-9 years ago even denim Salwar Kamewez took off in the UK for a while. It's warm and unconfortable, you'll be cooler in cotton.
• Turn you lights off at night. The amount of people turning on lights etc and leaving them on etc is large. I know it's useful if you wake up late at night and need to pee, but i'm sure you'll manage to make it too the light switch.
• Commercial shops don't have to have background music and spotlights everywhere. We have an energy crisis, the customer would understand.
• You need to have AC everywhere, just in the main living room might do the trick. Use fans in your bedrooms.

I don't mean to patronise, but we'll need to increase efforts to conserve electricity to make life easier for each other.

Any man who can get home use solar kits to Pakistan today will make it into the list of top 10 richest Pakistani's, mark my words.

If you can get them at cost or at warehouse prices, sell them on cheap, people will buy so many you will have no problem.

They are selling in the UK today.

Yes, Musharaf establishment has failed to resolve the problem. 100% of the blame on them for this.

But lets not forget that opposition has been doing "Opposition" for the sake of it. First he started the DAM building measures, opposition moaned enough to make it appear as if they went through child birth. Than it was suggested that Coal reserves should be used especially since now clean coal burning technologies are available. Opposition once again started opposing this.

Our politcal parties are far more part of the problem than any kind of solution.

Kaaash kay Benazir aur Nawaz Sharif nay mulk ka paisa loot khasoot kay ilaawa kuch paisa energy crisis ko handle karnay kay liyay bhi kharach kiya hota.

Blame it on the idiotic people that are against damns, coal usage etc.

Also, before anyone tells me about using nuclear power plants.

Let me just bring one fact to the attention. Nuclear power plants practically never pay themselves off. Also, waste storage is a complex issue, the waste needs to be reallocated every 400~500 years, right now, given how many gas pipelines we blow up, i don't see if we can actually manage huge quantities of waste.

Mind you, i still think Nuclear >> everything else except solar/wind, which are not mature yet.

Also, Musharaf regime did sign for the TAP and TI pipelines, so hopefully, they will help us fight the energy crisis over the coming decades.

O think there are new plant designs that recycle fuel and make residues negligible. There have been great improvements.

My buddy and I were talking about that ... (he's a nuclear engineer) and according to him that technology is still not fully mature.

Where two reciprocal designs have been proposed, where the waste of one is the fuel for the second, while the waste of the second is fuel for the first.

All i was saying was that our immidiate needs require more immidiate solutions and nuclear may not be it.

Just a little background...

Energy resources 'Negligence led to power crisis'
Thursday, January 03, 2008
By Mansoor Ahmad

LAHORE: Negligence to develop energy resources in time has remained the hallmark of the governments that came to power after removing democratic governments in the past three decades.

Economists pointed out that the country faced the first real loadshedding at the end of 11-year tenure of General Ziaul Haq and it was Benazir government that aligned the private sector to provide much-needed electricity for industrial and domestic use.

When Nawaz Sharif government was deposed in 1999 the country had surplus electricity as well as surplus natural gas. In fact, the Nawaz govt enjoyed the distinction to afford delay in entering into gas supply agreement for the gas discovered by the private sector.

The Zia government kept the Kalabagh dam project in cold storage during his tenure when the opposition to its construction was very weak. At the same time his regime failed to look for alternate sources of producing electricity.

The country felt acute shortage of electricity during the end of his tenure as the available surplus was consumed by GDP growth of six per cent during 11 years of his rule. The country entered the decade of 90's with acute shortage of electricity that slowed industrial growth for a while.

The Benazir govt arranged over 5,500MW thermal power through private sector after it became clear that there was no possibility of exploiting the hydro-electricity generation of the country through construction of mega dams.

Then the Sharif government started the running of the river hydroelectric Ghazi-Brotha project that had the potential to produce 1,450MW of electricity. Both the governments realized that industrial growth would only be possible if the country retains enough electric power to run the industries.

The availability of this additional 7,000MW electricity enabled the present regime to sustain the high GDP growth. These two governments also started the reform process by opening economy and enhancing the creditability of the regulatory institutions by providing full autonomy to the

State Bank of Pakistan and SECP that took over from ineffective Corporate Law Economists giving full credit to the Musharaf regime for not only continuing reforms but further strengthening the process started in the 90's.

This encouraged the private sector to enhance capacities and productivity. The robust growth during last eight years is even higher than the average growth achieved during the Zia regime. However, the economists pointed out that the government again committed the same folly made by the Zia government of neglecting the additional energy and power that the country would require after accelerated growth.

The Pak-Iran gas pipeline project was unnecessarily delayed to accommodate India. They said: "We should have preferred our national interest instead of waiting for India that adopted delaying tactics."

They said the private sector had not vigorously approach to new thermal power projects although WAPDA had timely warned the government in 2003 that there would be acute electricity shortage from 2006 onwards if new capacities were not added. Had the government initiated thermal power projects either through private sector or through WAPDA, the current crisis would not have taken place.

Source: http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89040

Industrial impact...

Power outages cause heavy production losses
Industries in Punjab, NWFP almost stop work

Friday, January 04, 2008
By Mansoor Ahmad

LAHORE: The failure of the Ministries of Commerce, Industries and Water and Power to coordinate a planned schedule for uninterrupted electricity supply to the industries in order to ensure efficient production without wastages has played havoc with industrial activities.

After suffering huge production losses due to three-day closure after Benazir Bhutto's death, the industrial wheel in Punjab and NWFP has almost halted again this time due to power and energy supply mismanagement. The idea to manage electricity shortage through half-hour load-shedding after every one hour of power supply may work for domestic and commercial consumers, but is not practicable for the industrial sector that in most of the processes for completion of a chain production cycle needs uninterrupted power supply for five to six hours.

After unscheduled load-shedding for short duration in recent weeks, both the small and large industries saw their production graph decline sharply and wastages increase enormously. All Pakistan Textile Mills Association (Punjab Zone) Chairman Akber Sheikh said "the spinning industry suffers production and raw material losses every time the process gets stopped due to power failure.

"It takes 15 to 20 minutes to restart the spinning process as with abrupt suspension of production the yarn in different stages of production is broken and has to be reloaded at many points."

He said the textile processing industry had been devastated, particularly the dyeing industry as the stoppage of the process due to power failure destroyed the entire lot that was in various stages of dyeing.

He said the processing industry had, in fact, completely stopped production in the uncertain electricity supply situation, adding that resulted in shortage of weaving material and fabric needed by the apparel sector.

Leading knitwear exporter Adil Butt, commenting on the issue, said the stitching and packing process could not be continued under current circumstances when electricity was switched off for 30 minutes after every hour. The workers could not remain sitting on the machines in the dark and left their stations at the time of load-shedding and took 15 to 20 minutes to reassemble when electricity supply was restored, he said, adding "as they find their rhythm, the power goes off after 40 minutes again."

The industrialists expressed their dismay over the indifferent attitude of the ministries established to facilitate the manufacturing sector. They alleged that the ministries had not kept liaison either within the government departments or with the industrial sector. Whenever any industrial sector faced problem, they said, it had to move from pillar to post to get it resolved. Ideally, the ministry concerned should adopt a proactive approach and resolve the problem at the initial stage.

They said though the power crisis had been on the horizon, its actual impact was known only to the Ministry of Water and Power and the Water and Power Development Authority. However, they said, both the institutions never bothered to take either the Ministry of Industries or the local industries into confidence to chalk out a contingency plan to minimise the impact of power shortage.

They said the Pakistan Electric Power Company (PEPCO) finally realised its mistake and contacted different industrial sectors to provide them a plan for uninterrupted supply for shorter duration.

The All Pakistan Textile Mills Association (APTMA) was informed that there would be no power supply to its industries from 5pm to 10pm when the electricity demand would be at the peak. The association was assured that after that there would be uninterrupted power supply, they said.

However, the textile millers complained that even after closing their industries during peak consumption hours they still faced periodic power shutdown after short durations which had upset their entire production schedule. The wastage in the industry had increased at a time when the textile sector was under stress due to high cost of doing business, they added.

Other industries like plastic goods' manufacturers, light engineering industries, auto parts' manufacturers and steel re-rolling mills have been in more difficult condition as they need constant power supply to process raw material put in the machines or suffer total loss. Even the printing presses are facing production losses.

Some large manufacturers having furnace oil or gas-run power generation facilities are managing their production but medium-sized industries having diesel/gas are dependent on inconsistent electricity supply from the WAPDA and are suffering badly.

Gas connection to all the industries has been severed while producing electricity from diesel costs Rs11 per unit. According to the manufacturers, the cost is too high to remain competitive.

Source: http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=89211

It never ceases to amaze me what a bunch of idiotic leadership we always had--short sighted, illiterates who just don't know anything about modern times! Bunch of iliterate Mullahs hell bent on opposing everything, bunch of sold out politicians who think nothing else but to destroy the country!

Now coming back to the energy crisis, we should seriously consider Solar and wind energy. We have sun most of the year around and not to use these energy sources is a blatant oversight by our idiotic leadership! This together with clean coal technologies, more Dams, Nuclear and gas energy resources should have been considered a long time back--but as usual with idiots like these as our leaders who needs enemies!!

This is one issue in Pakistan, that could (if attempted) be fixed fairly easily. Everyone has objections to something, you can't let that stand in the way. Build more damns, wind energy, solar energy, start using the coal (for once), nuclear energy, tidal energy, and gas (stay away from oil due to high prices). Seriously, all it would take is a few years and then we would have surplus electricity, just good leadership is needed.

Pakistan apparently has amazing green-energy potential...

Tidal energy could work out for Karachi...

http://www.pakistantimes.net/2007/05/20/national2.htm

We should be mixing with ethanol with petrol for cars. Why arent we doing anything with regards to that?

I don't know if they do that in Pakistan. Anyone with knowledge on this topic (in Pakistan of course) should help explain whether or not Pakistan does this and to what extent. I know for sure that in the US, that the gas you put in your car (from basically any petrol pump) is 10% ethanol. If Pakistan does not do this, it would be a good idea to start (it would save a whole lot of petrol usage).

I don't know if they do that in Pakistan. Anyone with knowledge on this topic (in Pakistan of course) should help explain whether or not Pakistan does this and to what extent. I know for sure that in the US, that the gas you put in your car (from basically any petrol pump) is 10% ethanol. If Pakistan does not do this, it would be a good idea to start (it would save a whole lot of petrol usage).

How can we expected economical growth in such situations? Not providing electricity is like trying to make chocolate without using sugar. Not only that, but electricity is the backbone of a healthy and happy society. I mean don't expect a smile from the next person who, in a furnal heat, is sweating from head to toe.

Anyway here is an advice on load shedding:

1) Instal emergency back-up light in your house. It usually turns ON when theres a load shedding and works on batteries that recharge itself when theres electricity. (However i don't know if you can get them in Pakistan, so if anyone knows something about it plz share)

May Allah protect Pakistan.

kash tara pass aik dimag hota ... !

It has given birth to another industry altogether, Import of generators.
The traders are happy.

Well in PAK CNG is used heavily.

Besides the easiest way to produce the ethanol is from food, and that will probably happen in Pakistan, and how ethical is it that food is used to drive cars when people are starving?

Now if ethanol was created from agricultural waste products and likewise, then the situation would be different, but my experience with Pakistan is that the easy way woul be chosen. :-(

What would you do for the electricity problem if you were in President Musharraf's shoes?

Well, if he could do the Lal Masjid thing against all the opposition how could he not get the kala Bagh dam built. CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE!

The question is much more like what can't he do... The guy can take zillion initiatives...

in my city...load shading start from 11 am to 12 then 8 pm to 9 pm :P

Oh there are many many many things one could do.

refurbish and upgrade the whole system of powersupply lines. <-- I am sure that would stop much of the leaking (power leaking)

Set up a number of clean coal powerplants and refurbish and upgrade the old ones.

New Naturalgas powerplants and refurbish and upgrade the old ones.

Work hard for dams.

Refurbish and upgrade the old dams, especially Mangla dam.

Setup a number of Solar power plants, especially the large ones that through sunheat heats up some liquids and runs a turbine that runs a generator. <-- Balochistan and Sindh region would especially benefit from this.

Wind mills, both at windy places in hilly areas but also outside some port / ocean cities.

Refurbish and modernize garbage collection system, and then burn the burnable garbage at plants, <-- A plant that develeops power from this offcourse.

By law using low power / effective lights etc. at government property.

By law preventing extremely ineffcient products.

And I could go on and on and on.

PS. For Gods sake, and Pakistans sake, lower the taxes on electricity!

good ideas, but the problem is that they all cost a fortune to do. We can only afford to do things slowly over time. Solar power in every house would make a huge difference, but having said that. The demand for electricity is set to grow, everyone wants a computer in the house, AC in every room, fans, Tv's plus a growing population, this leads to more demand, as for the people who take the electricity and don't pay the bill, they are another issue which exacerbates it.

To solve it massive investment is needed, and it should not public funds, it should be lead by the private sector.

Agree! One has to differentiate between short and long term initiatives though... Short term in order to fill the current gap and long term for the future demand... We all know that hydro and nuclear energy will take time to develop. Short term solutions are fossil fuel, biomass, wind power and solar power (solar farms in deserts). Europe will in the future gain electricity through solar farms in Middle Eastern desserts! Above all, we must be self-reliant. Import of energy resources should be minimized. It'll strain the economy!

One other important factor is energy saving measures. I think awareness is what lacks in Pakistan. There are zillions of ways to be energy efficient. Everyone can contribute to that. The use of energy saving products domestically (dishwashers, fridges, boilers, microovens, TV's or even just light bulbs) is a start...

PS. Have feasibility researches been conducted on the aforementioned short term energy alternatives?

What a hypocrat you are. You only mentioned one province while here in NWFP the biggest generator of electricity we are faced with 18-Hours daily load-shedding plus we are without Gas as at the same time there is heavy load-shedding of Sui Gas.

The entire Industrial estates are disconnected to the both these facilities.

and As someone mentioned you are benefited in other way by sale of generator.

Plus in NWFP we are flooded with Gas Cylinders manufactured in Punjab
So dont worry NS empire is getting much out of it ;)

Dams wont help much unless you have Systematic mechanism to use and conserve power already been produced.
Plus why not to regulate the useless WAPDA that is responsible for line losses worth billions of rupees which at the end are always put on poor consumers.
Besides even a low rank employee of level of a lineman is misusing electricity against maximum charges of Rs2 per month as power bill. Will u believe this.
All these years we had never thought of having energy conservation system.


If we failed to construct big dam ok we can blame it on some factors but why on earth we never thought to built small dams in large numbers which recently thank God after all we realized.


Had any of you heard about straw-dams ???
Mostly these are built in mountainous areas for generating power at small level but very useful for provision of population of thousands in a small areas.
Such schemes are been initiated in Southern Districts of NWFP, Rodkhoi is one such project that is highly successful.

Financial and time costs indeed are issues... However, past negligence is to be blamed for that... People will have to put up with that! It'll have to be a collective investment by public and private sector. There are no check and balances in place... There are no transparent authorities that crack down… The system is corrupt. Illegal electricity tapping is a common occurrence in Pakistan. Strict legal measures ought to be taken in order to tackle this huge problem.

lines break, it is not out of the ordinary, their not made of titanium.....they are suseptable to nature.....


so what is the fuss all about......?????


jana yes you are correct dams are not the whole solution, they are part of a solution....and yes we do need dams, as the demand for electricity is skyrocketing......at the same time supply is not increasing to meet up with damand as it takes several years to make 1 power station...


but yes, effort must also be put forth towards the infastructure....

I hope you all realise that if any action is taken today, it may take at least a decade before it's effects are felt. The current crop of Pakistani politicans are to blame for the current power crisis. They opposed Kalabagh dam, they made political points from it, the people pay the price for it. I hope you all remember which parties opposed the creation of the dam when voting.

platy :)

i dont know how much people in other provinces voted for parties on the basis of opposing KBD but i can bet on it that no one votes or voted for any party in NWFP for opposing the dam so i do not agree that anyone had made political points.


Secodly i never wrote on the issue of KBD though i could have in a better manner but despite the fact that i never liked that political party nor i would have any love for it ever, being a common dweller of NWFP i do have some reservasions.

We are ready to even wash away our citities as a result of construction of this dam, we will sacrifice whatever we can , But will the government Guarantee that we would be not left without power despite being the main producer of it ???


You all must accept that there is clash even among the brothers and sisters when there is unfair treatment

Well first of all, the power crisis is not only because the Kalabagh hasn't been build yet, there are and were tons of other options, but nobody did a thing.

Unfortunately, it wasn't good enough prior to 1999, and it still isn't good enough here in 2008.

Some solutions wont take decades. I never mentioned Nuclear power. Solar and Hydro power are expensive solutions with political obstacles to be tackled first.

Clean Coal and newer generation Natural Gas plants. These would be as both stop gaps but also good in the long term.

Refurbishment of every other powerplant in PK (from dams to coal plants etc.) wouldn't take too much time either.

Another thing is that ressources should be given out equally to the country. Power, money education etc. We are one country, not 4(5)! Unity unity unity, but amazingly not much has been equal in the past, and still isn't .... Hopefully this is going to change ASAP!

But nothing would be done, if anything at all until after the elections unfortunately offcourse...

You know, that dialouge sickens me. You people have drowned Kashmir since the 50's and still refuse to pay royalties for Mangla dam, yet you don't here us threatening to break the country apart and so forth. People get on with it. What has Kashmir gained from Mangla, even the people living on the dams edge have to put up with power cuts, yet we still live with it.

What kind of pathetic arguement is it that Sindh should be garunteed 100% coverage if Sindhi land is used for the dam. Who and when was this precedant set? It certainly wasn't in Azad Kashmir. It is this kind of mentality that makes me sometimes think that if Pakistan got nuked, it couldn't be a bad thing, as in a few centuries time, the radiation would go away and the country would finally be free of Pakistani's.

You either believe in the state of Pakistan and will sacrifice for it, or you should tear it apart and make your own countries.

I pay taxes, those taxes fund the National Health Service, I've not needed to use a doctor in years. It's what real countries do, sacrifice for the state. If KBD is built there should be no garuntees whatsoever that Sindh will benefit, there shouldn't even be garuntees that it will not suffer. That is what people do for states. That is the price you pay for countries. Do you want Pakistan or do you want Sindhistan, Punjabiland and whatever the f**k else will follow?!

Learn to exist as a state and one being and entity, accept everything you get, good or bad.

No Body is against the State i never commented on the dam issue before but as now you had vented your anger.

Platy No is saying that give us 100 % share or provide our 100 % areas with the facility we are producing.

But when you see the main land deprived of the same despite being a producer one has the right to complain.

On other hand why no one tells the biggest producer of wheat to try to learn to exist as a State??????

YOu know what they do they block supply of wheat depriving thousands of their brothers. are we not part of the state ???

The same madherchoud pendu who use water as a tool, use bread as a tool.

This is why nuclear holocaust can be seen as a good thing, it would give the state time to cool off from the evils of Pakistani people.

Nobody is willing to destry our entire political and social setup and mindfram and replace it. We need communism.

Platinum, communism will lead to greater wrongs, we simply need a revolution.

I don't see a revolution taking place... Authoritarian rule is the way forward... Screw the worthless opposition...

Yeah Jana, that's indeed a good one. Small dams scattered all over the country is a very good alternative. It's a cost-effective and familiar concept. In fact, China and India have also adopted this strategy:

"The immediate model in this regard is China where providing cheap hydel energy was part of that country's poverty alleviation campaign in the mid-1980s. A key factor in China's successful electrification program through hydel energy was Beijing's determination and ability to mobilize resources at the local level. Although the electrification program was backed by subsidies and low-interest loans, it also benefited from the very cheap domestic production of equipment ranging from hydro-power generators to light bulbs. India is another country in the region which has followed the same policy. By developing small hydro-power projects at an accelerated pace, it has addressed the problem poverty in rural areas. During the last five years, India's central government has completed 90 small hydro-power projects which can generate 270 megawatts of electricity.

Despite these success stories in our own neighborhood, our energy gurus are either stuck with construction of big dams or with experimenting for expensive alternatives like wind energy. It is important to understand that wind energy is not only expensive; it needs a lot of space to generate power. A recent report by US Agency for International Development (USAID), which makes a cost comparison of different technologies to harness green energy in south Asia, proves that hydel energy is five to ten times cheaper than wind and solar energy respectively."

Source: http://www.alternative-energy-news.info/hy...ty-alleviation/

See above source for some very interesting facts and figures... Read above source!