‘Pakistan missile project ahead of India’s’





NEW DELHI, Jan 9: India’s missile scientists have said that the country’s indigenous missile programme is flagging and needs foreign assistance to revive it.

The embarrassing admission came amid claims by Indian analysts that Pakistan’s missile programme had proved to be more robust and surefooted than India’s. The Mail Today newspaper on Wednesday quoted the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) as announcing that it would scrap its 25-year Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) by the end of this year.

“Plagued by cost overruns and repeated failures, the announcement is a virtual admission of failure,” the newspaper said. “In fact, some former chiefs of the different services said as much on hearing the news.”

:LOLANI:Speaking of the Trishul surface-to-air missile that has now been termed a technology demonstrator, former naval chief Sushil Kumar said: “It was a national embarrassment. DRDO made fake claims for 25 years. In the 1999 Kargil conflict, the navy was vulnerable to attacks from Pakistan’s Harpoon.

“Finally the project was scrapped when the navy went in for the Israeli Barak missiles. The Prithvi’s naval variant, Dhanush, is also flawed and ill-conceived, which is being inflicted on the navy.”On the Akash missile, which was the subject of the DRDO media conference here on Tuesday, former air chief S. P. Tyagi said: “Akash was to be ready at a certain time, but it wasn’t. I had to change everything to make up for the delay.” Both missiles were part of a programme to develop indigenous weapons, which began in July 1983, with plans for Agni, Prithvi, Trishul, Akash and Nag missiles.

The IGMDP, which was aimed at achieving self-sufficiency in missile development and production, comprises five core missile programmes -- the strategic Agni ballistic missile, the tactical Prithvi ballistic missile, the Akash and Trishul surface-to-air missiles and the Nag anti-tank guided missile.

The Mail Today quoted S. Prahlada, chief of the Control Research and Development, DRDO, as saying that development and production of most of the futuristic weapon systems would henceforth be undertaken with foreign collaboration.

With regard to the nuclear-capable Agni series, comprising I and II, the newspaper quoted army sources as saying while they had been tested five times each “a handful of tests are not enough to prove a missile’s worth”.

There were different problems with other systems too.

“Pakistan has always been one step ahead of India in its missile programme,” the newspaper said, adding that Islamabad has “a much more robust missile force than India, one capable of launching nuclear weapons to any part in this country.”

Unlike Indian missiles, which were declared “inducted” after a few tests, the Pakistani projectiles have always been thoroughly tested


DawnNews

HAHAHAHAHA... Finally DODO is naked and its not a pretty sight for the chabhji eaterz and daalkhors... lolzzz they made a silver jubilee of fake claims... cool

and Mashallah for our scientists and research organizations... May Allah grant us ever more success over these Symonds worshippers... oops eh.. I mean monkey worshippers :D ... hahahahahaha what a great start to the New Year!

Insha Allah Brother they gonna admit more. Bye the way any indian guy out there wanna comment on the indigenous program of their DRDO (DODO)?

what else can you expect from "The Don (opps...Dawn)".

IDGMP is closed because all its planned missile systems are already in production or in line.

Agni, Prithvi, Akash are in production now.. only Nag is left. Trishul was scrapped long time back.

http://www.zeenews.com/articles.asp?aid=417250

http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/55921/india-...way-to-top.html

HAHAHA....what else can you expect from an indian?! as usual, indians living in denial and dellusion. check out the following link, from a Bhindian (oops...indian) newspaper.

http://www.mailtoday.in/epapermain.aspx?qu...eddate=1/9/2008

(go to page 8-9)

^^ how convenient. so now you guys decide which Indian paper you wanna follow and which you not. wonder why "The Don" didn't quoted other sources? because it didn't served Pakistani interest.

when time will come you will know who is disillusioned and who is not. :)

I guess the bhindians r gonna take another silver jubilee to digest the facts :D Good for us!

Long live Symonds... eh I mean monkey god! I will go to the City Zoo today to offer peanuts... eh I mean prashad (i hope i got that rite) :D

Common people, lets NOT act childish IF the news in fact are for real.

lol, so how do YOU decide which bhindian paper you wanna follow and which not?

Well whtever but it helps us little because Brahmos is the worst threat than all and it is not crapy so far... It is fast, it is accurate and it can deliver... i doubt that Indiots have capability to produce as much smaller nukes which can be delivered by Brahmos but still even with conventional warhead it would be fatal against facilities and infrastructure...

Siddarth, Come on admit it, this is an admission that the Pakistani doctirne of using foreign collaboration, to build systems has proved superior to the indian one where they have tried to indigenise everything all in one go.

to try and portray this IGMP as as some kind of success, of the original vision is at best revisionist. Especially given it was always based on foeign technology anyway. (the German tech India promised not to use for military use.)

okkkk okkkkkkkk...............

we lost you win. happy now.

p.s. but whats the fun if i dont argue with what you guys say.

It is not a matter of lose and win.we are facing difficulties in swat it is dame true and facing,we were facing difficulties in blochistan yes it is true we never deniy so you should accept :)

C'mon guys, the point here is not to make the other feel inferior. I agree that our missile technology is [well] ahead of India's, but what's important is that we maintain this advantage.

I think you are forgetting your recent 11 month picnic at our borders.

You had enough time for virtually anything.

Why did you chicken out and ran away like a dog with your tail between your legs?


Why? Because DODO says so?

Why is made in Russia Klub Cruise Missile so bad but (Russian + DODO product) Brahmos Cruise Missile flawless and so much superior?

Check out the following report:

… the Klub cruise missile.

Inducted to be the main strike weapon of India's submarine arm between 2001 and 2006, this anti-ship cruise missile has never hit a target.

…

India is reported to have acquired over 200 Klubs at a cost of several thousand crores. And the missiles have never reached anywhere close to the stated range of 300 km.

The failure of the Klub cruise missiles has raised fresh doubts about the reliability of Russia as an arms supplier.

“We will look into other missiles,” says Vice-Admiral Puthan.

...

CNN-IBNL

Pakistan hasn't developed any missiles analogous to the Akash, Trishul or Nag. So, they're performance doesn't have any bearing on the comparision.

With regard to the ballistic missile program, the Prithvi works. That's all that's required. You can't compare ballistic missiles. Any contest will be between an ABM system and the missile. Pakistan doesn't have an ABM system, so any comparision is out.



I have never heard of Mail today and I have subscriptions to four newspapers(TOI,HT,IE,TH) at my place.

The IGMDP is being shut down simply because the Prithvi, Agni have been tested, have satisfied all test parameters and are in production. Now you may argue that the Shaheen can nuke a city more efficiently than the Prithvi, but its immaterial.

Not only you but everyone knows that Pakistani missile programme is much ahead of India because of academic, economical, technological and industrial superiority of Pakistan. But still they have to end the missile development programme after the development and inductions are over. One thing, the anti cruise missile SAM, Trishul, that DRDO could not induct into armed forces nor Pakistan nor China have such kind of SAM or far away from development. lol

Other missiles like Agni-II, Agni-I, Akash already inducted and Nag ready for user trial. Apart from ballistic missiles Pakistan dont even have a SAM like Akash with 26-30 km range or a third generation ATGM like Nag.

Govt of India have to say something about this.........


http://pib.nic.in/release/release.asp?relid=34457


It has been reported in a section of the media today that “Integrated Guided Missile Development Programme (IGMDP) as a Strategic Programme stands Scrapped”.

It is hereby clarified that except for Agni demonstrator, which was successfully completed in 1989, all other projects under IGMDP are related to Tactical Missiles such as anti-tank Nag, short range Trishul, medium range Akash and Prithvi for artillery role with conventional warheads. All these missiles have since been developed. All are entering Service in one form or other. With this, objectives of IGMDP originally envisaged stand completed.

Strategic Missile Program is entirely indigenous and is being pursued through a number of separate projects. All of them are progressing as per schedule and no Strategic System has been scrapped.

The time for Akash is over it the time for AAD, PAD; Barak-NG not Trishul; Brahmos hypersonic not Brahmos.

Now you are happy.........lol

From DRDO Techfocus January 2008 issue
2007 round up by Dr. VK Atre
Successful launch of Interceptor Missile (AAD)
Last month on December 6, we took a significant step towards developing Ballistic Missile Defence (BMD), when an endo-atmospheric interceptor missile killed 'hostile' missile off the Orissa coast. This is milestone in itself as India has joined the elite club of USA, Russia, and Israel.

Successful launch of Agni III Missile
The Agni III (A3-02) was successfully launched on 12 April, 2007. All the mission objectives were fully met.
In another milestone, Users had also conducted operationalisation training flight trials of Agni-I system on 5 Oct 2007.

Akash
Mobility trials as part of user's trial for Army were conducted at Pokharan during 11 to 29 Jun 2007. Flyover Trials of Akash weapon system as part of Air Force user trials was conducted at Pokharan during 15 to 17 Nov 2007. User's trials for Air Force were also successfully conducted at ITR, Chandipur during 13 to 19 Dec 2007.

Brahmos Missile System
The first batch of land version of BrahMos missile systems including advanced Fire Control System, Launch Complex, Mobile Command Post and certain number of missiles has been handed over to the Army. Thus Indian Army is the only land force in the world to have supersonic cruise missile for land attack. Installation of unique multi missile vertical launcher has been completed on board INS Ranvir, providing vertically launched capability from ships for cruise missiles. The missile, capable of firing from underwater, is ready for evaluation test so that future submarines will have BrahMos missiles for ship and land target applications. Substantial progress has been in the development of air version and its interface with different types of aircrafts. Actions have been initiated to increase the production capability of BrahMos missile.

Handing over Samyukta Hardware to Army
The completion of production orders of SAMYUKTA EW System (for Army) is in advance stage. Out of 3 comm blocks, 2 blocks have been supplied to Army and out of 2 non comm blocks, one comm has been supplied. The remaining one block each of comm and non comm block are under factory acceptance tests.

Sangraha
Under this EW program for the Navy, the Sangraha systems have been successfully developed and inducted into Indian Navy. Users have placed repeat orders on M/S BEL for more such systems. Total production value is worth more than Rs 700 crores.

Rajendra Radar
As part of Akash system, 3D CAR and Rajendra Radars have provided excellent detection and tracking of targets in group mode testing.

Handing over of 14 Nos of MBT Arjun to the Army
Combat engineering has always been a major field of work for DRDO to meet the requirements of our services. Numbers of equipments have been successfully developed and delivered to users. Army has placed an order for 124 Nos of MBTArjun with the DRDO in March 2000. The production of MBT Arjun is now streamlined and the tanks are being delivered to Army as per schedule. 14 Nos of MBT have already been handed over to Army. The AUCRT of 2 out of these 14 tanks has commenced and have proved successful in all the parameters. Another 30 Nos of tanks are likely to be delivered by 2008.

Armaments

The Under Barrel Grenade Launcher (UBGL) has successfully gone through troops trial and has been strongly recommended by users for induction into services.

The modifications suggested in Modern Sub-Machine Carbine(MSMC) have been carried out and the weapon is ready for confirmatory users trial.

Army has placed an indent worth Rs 1300 crores for Pinaka Weapon System including various types of vehicles. Accuracy enhancement of Pinaka through Trajectory Correction System (TCS) is being carried out jointly by ARDE and IMI Israel.

Influence Mine Mk II has been introduced into service and Army has placed an indent for 20,000 MK-II mines.

Naval Labs

Submarine Sonar USHUS has been successfully inducted into service and is shortly completing its sea trials.

Whereas NAGAN, the towed array sonar and MAAREECH, the torpedo Defence System are under User Associated Trials.

Navy has also given clearance for DRDO designed Low Frequency Airborne Sonar System for its sea trials onboard ALH. As regards to naval weapon systems, DRDO has successfully handed over Fire Control System for Helicopter Launched Torpedoes, an Integrated Advance Weapon Control System, lAC MoD (0) for ships and Processor Based Exercise Mines to Indian Navy.

In addition, path breaking research and development have taken place in the field of stealth technologies, corrosive protection technologies and Bio degradation techniques. The Users have also recognized the indigenous development of marine steel weld consumables, underwater paints and other technologies towards enhanced operational availability of the warships.

The fuel cell power plant with integrated methanol reformer has entered the production engineering phase and is expected to be launched as a product during the year ahead.

Weaponisation, Sensor-Integration and Drop Tank Test of LCA
LCA Tejas continues to fly superbly in 2007 also. Till Dec., 2007 LCA has completed 785 flights. The Light Combat Aircraft 'TEJAS' program achieved the most significant milestone, when it successfully test fired the Close Combat Missile R-73. This historic event marked the beginning of weaponisation, which is the focus of the current initial operational clearance (IOC) phase of the program. Air-to-air missile integration and testing especially on a fly by wire aircraft is a very complex task involving interfaces with aerodynamics, engine air intake, control laws, flight control system, avionics system, electrical and other general system of aircraft.

LCA Tejas PV-1 created another milestone as it made a successful first flight with two 800 ltrs drop tanks under the wing stations. The flight proved functionalities of the on-board stores management system in the 'heavy stores' mode.

Tejas LCA programme received yet another major fillip with the first successful flight test on PV-2 using Litening Pod, which can provide the pilot with day & night picture of terrain, Laser ranging and Laser spot seeking (LDP).
The LCA team consisting of members from IAF, HAL-ARDC, ADA, CEMILAC and DG-AQA have worked together for several months to
achieve this success in first attempt.

Positioning of Defence Strategic Technologies and Systems

Indiginisation of AB Steel for Naval Weapon platforms
It is indigenously developed High quality AB class Steel which finds application in naval ship building. The production of AB Class Steel has been established at SAIL plants.

NBC Equipment and Advanced Materials

Order worth more than Rs 2000 crores has been placed by Army for a range of NBC products like NBC permeable suit Mark-IV,NBC Recce Vehicle, Autojet, Injector, NBC field Shelters, and RPL Dosimeter. Orders of about Rs 500 crores have already been realized.

The Materials Labs contributed to the Services through deliverance of Environmental Survey Vehicle developed for Indian Navy to measure radioactivity in air, water, soil and other environmental matrices and in successful completion of user trials for modernization of NBC Protection System of BMP-2 & 2K.


Combat Free Fall Oxygen System and Protective Clothing

This has been developed for paratroopers. It consists of pre-breather console, portable bailout oxygen system, demand oxygen regulator, and oxygen mask, helmet, jumpsuit, gloves, boots, goggles, jack-knife. The system has been accepted by Army.

Order placed for 2000 Nos HAPO bags by Army

This portable, life saving, first aid kit i.e HAPO bag is already under production. It is used for treatment of high altitude pulmonary edema, a hazard associated with rapid ascent to altitudes more than 2700m. It has been accepted by the Army and an order for 2000 bags has been placed.

2008
In the Year 2008, we will continue our thrust on ongoing tasks on TOT and productionisation of systems like Interceptor missiles for AAD, Akash Surface-to-air-missile, Nag anti-tank missile, LRSAM, Weapon Locating Radar, Rohini, Revathi and Bharani radars, Advanced Experimental Torpedoes, Bridging Systems, Sub Machine Carbines, EOFCS etc,.

Next Decade
In the coming decade DRDO will focus on the development of futuristic technologies relating to systems like Multi-role Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft, Integrated Surveillance, Unmanned Combat Air Vehicles, Air-to-air Missiles Astra, Hypersonic Vehicles, Airborne EW, Multi Sensor Data Fusion, Active Phased Array Multi Function Radar, Unmanned
Ground Vehicles, Autonomous Underwater Vehicles etc,.

LOL, indians in denial! the funny part is they never refute any argument, they just post counter arguments! namec the bhindian was bragging about what? trishul, akash and nagin? LOL, here is a reality check!

Indian Air Force 'Not Impressed' With Akash Surface to Air Missiles

Leading national daily 'Hindustan Times' reports that DRDO's Akash Surface to Air Missile has consistantly failed all trials conducted by the Indian Air Force.....

A presentation, based on the report of an IAF expert who had witnessed the trials, contained several startling revelations. "The IAF expert witnessed repeated cases of missile parts falling off during many trials. He recommended that the Akash missile system was not fit to be deployed," a senior officer, who attended the presentation, told 'Hindustan Times'.

the report presented to the IAF officers says, "The expert noticed it took 25 minutes to load a single missile on the launcher, which rendered this missile system unfit for use in war-like situations. The night loading time would therefore automatically be twice more than daytime."

Describing the Akash missile trials as a "disaster", the presentation report says, "Out of 20 test trials seen by the IAF expert, the majority of them ended in a failure."

"It was not capable of picking up low-level targets over any sea, due to multi-path reflection. The missile warhead was also not capable of engaging present-generation targets, due to repeated failures," the report says.

The report indicates that desperate moves were made during the trials to prove that the system was a success. "A radar was placed on a 13-metre-high platform for all trials, to increase the efficiency of the missile system artificially, which would not be the case in hostile conditions of war," it says.
http://######/reports-3083


Trishul is a FAILURE!

THE Trishul missile defence system has long been an embarrassment (yet indians are shameful enough to brag about it) and even its parent, the Defence Research and Development Organisation, should have preferred to give it a quiet burial rather than go in for a notional one-year extension. Its status as a mere “technology demonstrator” after two decades of development is in itself a pointer to the abysmal failure of the project. A missile defence system, which has to track and destroy a moving missile in the air, is inherently more complex than a point-to-point missile like the Agni or Prithvi. After repeated trials, Trishul’s failure rate has been so high that no user would be inspired to buy it. Reports also suggest that the launcher is far heavier than it should be and even its partial successes have been due to an amalgamation of imported technologies.

It is no surprise, therefore, that the Navy opted for the Israeli Barak system, which, by all accounts, it is happy with. Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee has made it clear that the CBI probe is not about the merits and demerits of the Barak, but rather into alleged kickbacks. Yet, the CBI was ill-advised to point to the “over-ruling” of the Trishul as one of the reasons why the Barak deal was suspect. This lack of appreciation of the ground reality is not to be expected from the premier investigating agency and in the interests of hassle-free defence procurement, the CBI should explore setting up a special cell with expertise in defence matters. Of course, whatever the excellence of the equipment, it cannot justify irregularities of any kind.

And while the Navy cannot be blamed for preferring a working imported system to a dud, there is a consensus that continued import dependence is not in the nation’s interest. Army Chief J.J. Singh has emphasised the importance of indigenous capability in the ongoing modernisation efforts and many a service chief has supported important programmes like the Tejas, precisely with this in mind. It is a pity that the DRDO has not been up to the job. The death of Trishul is an opportunity for a drastic overhaul.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2006/20061019/edit.htm#2


Nag is also a FAILURE!

The Nag, therefore, has at least four extremely ambitious technologies which are a hindrance to the project's fulfillment. First, the dual-use focal arrays using both the new infra-red window and MMW have not reached a satisfactory stage. Second, the DRDO is nowhere near matching the Nag crew commander's night sight identification capabilities with the maximum range of the missile, which is four kms. Third, the mean battle range in the west against Pakistan has never exceeded two km. Why, then, have a missile with a range of four km? And, importantly, against moving targets, it will be difficult to maintain the "lock-on" with the massive mix up of opposing mechanised forces, where dust, smoke and other irritants disrupt vision within the electromagnetic spectrum.

Probably the biggest disadvantage of the Nag would be its limited numbers. Sources put the cost of Nag at Rs 30 million each. The cost of the entire missile system would be much higher. In the Indo-Pak context, where numbers always prevail over technological quality, Nag will find only limited operational employability. It is obvious that the range of four km for the Nag is an attempt to match Pakistan's TOW-II missile.

The Army had long suggested that Milan with the same penetration capability as TOW-II remain the primary ATGM. The Nag, once successfully manufactured, would be better as an attack helicopter mounted ATGM, since the chances of the line-of-sight being lost would be far less than in the ground configuration. A third generation Milan fitted with tandem warheads would be the ideal ATGM against Pakistan and even China's ATGM. Sources say that after Operation Parakram, it was the urgency to fill conventional chinks in own armour that led the Government to finally heed the Army's advice. The agreement signed between India's Bharat Dynamics Limited and France's MBDA Missile Systems on February 7 for the manufacture of third generation Milan-3 anti-tank missile is an indication that the Nag project has been a failure. Scientists, however, have put up a brave front by asserting that development of the indigenous Nag anti-tank missile would continue. Equipped with thermal sights, the man portable Milan-3 is effective at a range of four km. The Government would do well to hold a technical audit of the Nag project to drastically modify its operational parametres. It should either be made into a cost-effective weapon system or be scrapped altogether.

http://www.dailypioneer.com/columnist1.asp...amp;validit=yes

m glad, at last they accepted it.

Titan,

You know when the Americans left Vietnam, they pretended it was an American victory, it was presented as such to the populace, even though everyone knew the truth.

If you think the so called IGMP was such a success, that it was cancelled. Why is it not continuing development of "indigenous missiles", I mean you haven't even developed an ICBM yet! It's like saying the moon landing program was a success before it reached the moon, it was a success still by testing the kit on earth.

When you make a mistake you should admit it, rather than bury your head in the sand.

I already got waring level is 33% Higher now , no reason Mentioned ... But i want to say again


These buindians only know how to shi$s in pants, they are winner believe me ,,,,,, they need no missile they them self are worst then any missile or bomb and have special name ..... " Stinking Bombs" , from China to USA every one says bhindians you mean Stinking bombs LOL!

I would say just wait and watch, hold your horses for now.

Now suddenly if Indian said it publicly that they are far behind Pakistan in Missile technology, something is cooking for sure.

Question to ask is why suddenly now?
How come most of the projects of DRDO have failed suddenly?
And why India is so loud about it, they should have rather wrap the matter quitly, isn't it?

Looking at what world stage is in marking, is there some conspiracy developing, is India part of some game, or is India trying to win sympathy vote of west to gain more technology? There could be anything, so stop jumping and dancing take some time to think and put your feed back.

And in the end I could be wrong about the theory.

nuke india!! nah we're friends now

If US say that F-22 development is over after 30 years, now if you say that was a big failure what can US do?? Or they bother about it??? I think, no. They know what they are doing.

In this world some members here and Dwan think that IGMDP was not a success though most of them are in service already nor Pakistan have such kind of system in its inventory. Thats all.

IGMDP was a success but India is decades behind Pakistan in missile technology aftyer induction of Akash which can engage sub-sonic cruisemissile as well as fighters and UAVs, test of PAD, AAD-1 anti-ballistic missiles, cryogenic engine development, heavy launch vehicle development, advanced thrusters for satellites, kill vehicle technology with diverted layered thrust, though our satellite going to moon, though we have demonstrated al;l kind of engine tech included SCRAMJET and Ram jet technologies.

So I think India have nothing to do but have to take helps from Israel, France and Russia to match Pakistan, if they can. And spped up weapon joint development like Brahmos with other countries. These current system (req high-end engine tech) are not enough....

1. PAK FA as well as fifth gen weapons with Russia.

2. Barak-NG LR SAM with Israel

3. Maitri quick reaction SAM with MBDA.

4. Heavy launch vehicle engine with Russia.

5. Brahmos hypersonic version with Russia.

Oh yes, this is india's part of saome game. thats why Nag, Akash, Agni, Trishul, Arjun MBT, LCA are not ready after 30 years.

pathetic thinking, admit your faults instead of coming up with the most stupid conspiracy theories.

Nag, Akash, Agni-1, Agni-II, Arjun are not inducted into armed forces????!!! See where you r? Trishul was an advanced anti-cruise missile system developed but the Navy have opted the Barak-1 earlier, so now we are going for joint development of Barak-2 and Barak-NG with Israel, without Trishul that was not possible as well as AAD and PAD. LCA!!!! already completed 800 flights are to be mounted with AESA radar and TVC engine soon and an advanced BVR AAM Astra been developed for it. More capable than anything that India's enemy gonna have untill 2015.

LOL, how many Arjuns and LCAs have been inducted into IA and IAF since the last 30 years? go and mentally masterbate on your bharat-ratshack forums please!



provided if it ever gets inducted by 2015

5+14=19 Arjun already in service and first LCA for IAF, LSP-1 started test flying and fitted with Lit-3 targetting pod.

WRONG!

Arjuns in ACTIVE IA service = 0
LCAs in ACTIVE IAF service = 0

the few Arjuns with IA are for TRIAL purposes ONLY. they are NOT in ACTIVE service. same goes to the single LCA.

titan,

F-22 has not been cancelled, it will continue its development, it is already by some measure the best air superiority fighter in the world. so it has achieved part of its goal, though perhaps is not in active service yet.

If IGMP was a success, why cancel it before it got to produce an ICBM? That is what the whole indian missile program was about.
All the programs you have talked (Agni, prithvi, Akash etc)about were dismissed as not being properly tested anyway. (They are hardly totally indian given they are all derived from the german technology India promised not to use in missiles) plus the acknowledgement that many components are foreign, this is a silly argument. IGMP was no more indian, than Ghauri was Pakistani. Come to terms with it. The difference being we did not waste a gargantuan amount of money, effort on it over 30 years like india.

anyone can argue we are developing this and that, once upon a time, indians argued tehy are developing their own tank and Awacs and we all know what happened there don't we.

If Akash was such a success, why buy barak? if Arjun was a success why pursue the T90 purchases? You don't like to admit to failure do you.

I think we must be wise.

Thinking that India is failing in their projects so we don't need any thing to develop, can be really a dangerous thing. Pak must have its defense project totally irrelevant to whatever indians are saying or doing.

We must have a clear road map for future and I m 100% sure that Pakistani military establishment is aware of these things. I think most critical project for our is to establish those 9 high tech eng universities that was idea of Dr. Atta-ur-Rehman with the help of friendly countries. (That list don't have US,UK,Japan included but Sweden,Germany are there for sure)

Next we will have to fund these universities on developing technologies for future to make us self sufficient. Special curricula must be designed for future defence engineers based on our current expertise.

I think institues like IST, Islamabad must be funded and fully supported by GoP. But again these are big under taking and need solid economy on the back. West will never aid us just to run our high tech institutes.

As for as current military facilities are concerned they must be upgraded constantly and JV with civil institutes must be expanded. A talent hunt for the genius can also help in this regard. We must focus on things like UAVs, Smart Weapons, Satellite Jamming, EW/Counter EW,Advanced composites, Aero Engineering etc.etc. beacuse these are the real things that will be used in future wars... BMs will come after taking some strategical decisions.

But at the moment we need peace in the country at most. I am hoping that things will be settled after elections. We need to end the political chaos in country immediately.

what really matters is india can hit pakistani cities and pakistan can hit indian cities.

Bragging?? I was merely pointing out a fact that you very conveniently ignore - Pakistan doesn't have any indigenous SAMs, successful or unsuccessful, medium tech or high tech. Once, you develop such a system and if it turns out to be better than the Akash - by all means, brag away.

The American campaign was as good as lost when the public opinion turned against it. Interesting thing is the US won the majority of battles in the war. They moved out because the American people weren't ready to pay the price for winning the war, while the commie leaders didn't give a damn about their people.



So if I have it right, you believe that India has, starting at this year's end, ceased all missile research? Come on .. you and I both know that's not possible. Missile research will continue, but in independent programs. There is no reason why the Nag and Agni-4 need to be developed by the same consortium.

The IGMDP was a partial success. Developing working ballistic missiles was critical since they weren't available in the international market and the DRDO despite setbacks did it. Pakistan had help from NK and China while pursuing its own program(read Nodong, M-11), unlike India.

Tactical missiles have been a disappointment, but if you think of the fact that the India's defence research budget is 5% of the US's, the DRDO hasn't done that badly. Though they have shown a chronic tendency to aim to high.

Short and medium range ballistic missiles are in service, and the Agni-4 is in development. The rest can be procured from abroad(like Pakistan does) while working concurrently on indigenous programs.

Developing an ICBM wasn't an objective of the IGMDP when it was started in 1983.



Elaborate please. I'm hearing of the German technology thing for the first time.



I've read that the DRDO used technology partly derived from the Soviet SA-2 StoA missiles(inducted in 1957) in the development of the Prithvi I. That's about all I know about foreign tech in the IGMDP, but I'd be interested in hearing more.

Coming to the cost, I do not believe the money invested in the IGMDP has been too much and its certainly not gartantuan. I don't have figures, but from the DRDO people I've met what I've gathered is that western(read P5) countries have spent several multiple times the expenditure incurred by the DRDO on their missile programs.

anyone can argue we are developing this and that, once upon a time, indians argued tehy are developing their own tank and Awacs and we all know what happened there don't we.



For the same reason, the PAF is buying the F-16 as well as the JF-17. Its a better system. More expensive yes, but better all the same.



Two reasons-

1. It has a bad development history. So, the brass are pretty sceptical about it even after its passed all its trials.

2. Production issues. The HVF at Avadi requires a complete overhaul.



Can't say about Titan, but I'll freely admit that the Trishul was a failure.

LOL! having a missile system which doesnt works = not having any missile system at all. infact its even worse, coz millions of dollars were spent on something which didnt work, which otherwise could be used to build toilets for the 700 million toiletless indians.

namec please stop this, thats result nothing. Just like another, "i am better than you".

Everyone knows who is better in missile/rocket technology. Its Pakistan....Pakistan taking the advantages of its academic, technological, space, economic, industrial superiority over India. To match up India should go beyond Agni-3+ and Agni-4 or GSLV-mk3 or HSTDV or RLV or cryogenic or semicryogenic or scramjet. I wish next time Govt of India should increase defense budget upto 3% of GDP. Thats all.

If we are behind in everyway, we should not ashamed to mention it, than only we can learn something for our future projects over the next two years like moon missions (both satellite and rover), GSLV-mk3, Agni-3+ (5000 km), Agni-4 MIRV (6000 km), Hypersonic vehicle (HSTDV), ISRO Re-usable Launch Vehicle (SCRAMJET) etc. All of them will fly either in 2008 or 2009 except the moon rover due to land on moon by 2011.

http://www.drdo.org/bnews/jan08/akash_test.htm


I wish Pakistan can have a system like this. Malaysia already shown interest.--->>>This system can engage cruise missile, UAV at very low altitude to high flying fighters upto 18 km.

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Introduction

Akash is an all weather area air defence weapon system for defending vulnerable areas against medium range air targets penetrating from low, medium and high altitudes. The system is designed to neutralize multiple aerial targets attacking from several directions simultaneously. The system is autonomous and its operation is fully automated. The system is configured to be cross country mobile on tracked chasses for the Army or road mobile on Tatra chasses. This provides flexibility in deployment.


Network Centric

The weapon system consists of a network of radars and control centers which enables it to work in a network centric manner. It also enables robust and reliable operations, as data from multiple sensors are fused into a coherent single integrated air picture for the commander. The system can also integrate legacy and futuristic radars. Computers process information from several radars and also help in automatically classifying the targets as friendly or otherwise. The system also provides for cued acquisition of multiple targets by weapon control radar based on data from surveillance radars.

Advanced Battlefield Management Features

The system has advanced battlefied management software, which carries out relative threat computation and pairing of targets and missiles. It also enables fire control decisions such as direction of missile launch, number of missiles to be launched and instant of missile launch. The system also helps to assign specific launchers and missiles and monitors the health of the various combat elements and reports them to the war fighter. The control center provides “fire request” cue to the commander at the earliest instant ensuring high kill probability. The system has inbuilt simulation facility as well as self-testing before clearing the missile for launch.

The communication between various elements of the weapon system is provided by frequency hopping secure RF links. The system can operate in a totally automated hands free operation mode from target detection to kill .

Akash Missile

The supersonic surface to air missile has a range of about 25 km and carries a 55 kg fragmentation warhead that is triggered by proximity fuze. The missile uses state-of-art integral ram jet rocket propulsion system and the onboard digital autopilot ensures stability and control. The missile has all the way command guidance for full range of operation. Electro-pneumatic servo actuation system controls cruciform wings for agile response, and thermal batteries provide onboard power supply. The Radio Proximity Fuse has advanced signal processing features. Together with the pre fragmented warhead and safety arming mechanism, a high kill probability of maneuvering targets is assured.

Battery Level Radar

The Battery Level Radar (BLR) is the heart of the weapon system as it tracks the targets and missiles and guides the missiles towards the targets. The multifunction phased array radar can simultaneously track upto 64 targets. In addition it can guide eight missiles towards four targets at the same time. Electronically steered beams enable agility in switching between various functions of the radar. It has a slewing antenna which enables 360o coverage in azimuth. It has been designed with advanced ECCM features.

Missile Flight Tests
Several development flight tests were conducted during 2005, 2006 in which the Akash missile successfully intercepted flying targets consistently at different altitudes and ranges. The tests included simultaneous launch of two missiles from two launchers against two targets using the same fire control radar and fire control center. All the flight tests were conducted at the missile flight test range ITR, Chandipur which is extensively instrumented and is one of the world’s best test ranges.

Field Mobility Tests
In recent tests in realistic desert terrain combat conditions, the complete group of Akash Weapon System was fielded and its mobility assessed. The rigorous trials have established the ruggedness of various electronic and mechanical packages of the ground systems. Also the response of the Akash weapon system to various air threat scenarios has been assessed in detail. The tests have been conclusively proved the combat worthiness of hardware and software integration of Akash weapon system. The immunity of Akash weapon system to electronic countermeasure environment was separately tested and proved at Gwalior Airforce base.
User Trials

IAF had evolved the user Trial Directive to verify the consistency in performance of the total weapon system against low flying near range target, long range high altitude target, crossing and approaching target and ripple firing of two missiles from the same launcher against a low altitude receding target.

The user trials of intercepting flying targets were conducted at ITR, Chandipur during 14-21 Dec 2007. Akash missile has successfully intercepted targets fifth time in a row in this campaign. Fifth and last trial successfully took place at 2.15 pm on 21st Dec at Chandipur on sea. The Akash missile destroyed an Unmanned Air Vehicle (Lakshya) which was flying a path simulating an air attack. The target vanished from the radar screen when the missile was guided precisely in close proximity and warhead blast occurred destroying the target instantaneously. This is the grand finale of the tend days users campaign meticulously planned by the Indian Air Force.

Indian Air Force officials witnessed user trials. With the conclusion of Akash evaluation now onus lies with Indian Air Force and Indian Army as the state-of-art surface to air missile as required by services is available for indigenous production in India.

The ten day user trials saw participation of 300 reps from DRDO, PSUs, Private Industries and MSQAA. Dr. Prahlada who conceptualized the Akash weapon system and headed the project for nearly for two decades and currently the Chief Controller at DRDO HQrs provided the leadership during the campaign. Dr RR Panyam has been the Project Director of Akash since 2002. The multifunction phased array radar has been developed by LRDE Bangalore and about 1000 scientists from 13 DRDO laboratories have contributed to the development of this weapon system.

Production Readiness
M/s. BEL, Bangalore has been identified as the Nodal production agency for Akash weapon system. M/s. BDL, Hyderabad, M/s. ECIL, Hyderabad, M/s. L&T Mumbai and M/s. TPCL Mumbai are the major production partners. About 300 industries in Public and Private sectors contribute to the production of the weapon system. Concurrent engineering practices have been adopted to minimize the learning curve in production. The vendors have been carefully chosen for their familiarity with critical technologies, manpower and quality management systems. Production documentation containing detailed specifications of raw-materials processes and products.

Conclusion
The weapon system is now ready for production and induction. This is a major milestone for DRDO and its industry partners. It is also an essential step towards indigenously developing more complex air defence weapons for the future.

Yaar Siddharth, baar baar kiyu karta hai aisa?

Recent news, we heard, Hanuman and Ram were summoned to court as witnesses.
When none of their reps accepted court papers, Indian govt. declared that Ram was a fake and never existed, just a myth.
Then we heard that one of the monkeys in India is ISI trained and can only speak pushto and siraiki, there got to be a limit man, com'on.

Think logically, it's well about time, bud.
And you still beleive a 30 year old metal heap will soar in the skies?

Titan
===

You posted stuff related to the Akash. My question is if this system is so capable then why India going to induct Israeli missiles into inventory? Why not India searching potential buyer for this system? Why not they aggressively marketing it along side other high tech western systems to got more money for further R&D? How many of these have been deployed?

Thanks in advance.

Titan
===

You posted stuff related to the Akash. My question is if this system is so capable then why India going to induct Israeli missiles into inventory? Why not India searching potential buyer for this system? Why not they aggressively marketing it along side other high tech western systems to got more money for further R&D? How many of these have been deployed?

Thanks in advance.

PakShaheen: Don't you know they have already been deployed all over India? They have been deployed in all major Indian cities on various roundabouts and museums in memory of the silver jubilee DODO Delusional Randi (ooops R&D) Program :D

Thank you DODO for keeping us entertained

... Keep tuned to DODO Tv for more blockbusters in the future

That word shows from where you belongs to. Thanx.

BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....................

KIDO, Failed Tank Project, Failed Jet Project and Failed Missile Project.

DO You Have ANY SENSE....... That any Project INDIA Started get DOmmed after years.


Go FIrst make a Sucessfull project then let us know.

You Screem like Hell when you THINK TO Start a Project. and Shutup like a ASS when It Fails.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....................

There is no if. Because The system is well developed and every part of it is in public. Its has taken many years but still a very potent system for air defense. If you have good knowladge about SAM (as I wish) you can see that it have more features of that available from similer system from other countries.

IAF and IA have high end requirments. Like P-3C, SPYDER, S-300, Bofors, Denel, PAC-3 and many other systems dont meet their requirments. You have seen ten days Akash user trial excercise held in Decenmber where IAF have tested the missile in various altitude, targets, ranges and simultaneous engagement of multiple targets with multiple missiles from multiple launchers as well as two missiles against one target.


I want to say that after so high requirments from the armed forces which rejected advanced VL-MICA and SPYDER, Akash have meet the req and cleared for induction. IAF will buy 3000 missile while IA needs 1400 for more than 5000 crore.



Yeah. Currently Indian have capability to built 50 missiles per year and will be increased to 100 per year later. So They first need to meet IAF req after that foreign buyers.

Malaysia already shown interest in the Akash and Brahmos system during defense minister's visit to Malaysia this week. Malaysia, Vietnam, Indonesia will be the first buyer of Brahmos when atleast ten countries shown their interest to buy Brahmos. After primary induction to IAF India will promote the Akash to other countries incluing Malaysia and some African, South-East Asian and Latin American countries.




They have enough money for R&D, while we need more man, so thats not the matter. IAF and IA will need aroung 4500 Akash missiles but India have much less production capability. But still some countries are interested incluing Malaysia, they have shown their own interest.



Ten integrated Akash system with 4500 missiles will be inducted into armed forces. Its recently cleared for mass production. First system will be inducted into IAF by 2010.

hehehe "I will not believe that because that burns me" lolololol

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nah thats from where U and Ur rat worshippers belong hahahaa lolz... Even your location tells that... U r from Kanjar valley hahahaha lolz India Rundia... jay Symonds oh i mean Hanuman :D

Peace... Loser :P

survivor when u expect others to respect your religion and god, its necessary to respect their religion and gods. friendly advice, nothing personal.