http://www.spacewar.com/2006/080227134354.7sj6yizz.html

Pakistan says Indian missile test to trigger arms race: report


KARACHI, Feb 27 (AFP) Feb 27, 2008

Pakistan's military chief on Wednesday said that a test by India of a sea-based nuclear-capable missile would start a new arms race between the South Asian arch rivals, state media reported.
India conducted its first test of a nuclear-capable missile from an undersea platform on Tuesday, completing its goal of having air, land and sea ballistic systems.

"This is going to start a new arms race in the region," the Associated Press of Pakistan quoted naval chief Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir as telling a group of journalists at a ship-building facility inauguration in Karachi.

"We are aware of these developments, and these developments are taking place with a view to put nuclear weapons at sea and it is a very, very serious issue," the state news agency quoted him as saying.

Pakistan carried out nuclear weapons tests in May 1998, following similar tests by India, with which it has fought three wars.

The neighbours were on the brink of a nuclear conflict in 2002 over tensions about disputed Kashmir, but began a slow-moving peace dialogue in 2004.

Pakistan has test-fired three land-based nuclear-capable missiles this year.

"very serious issue," the state news agency quoted him as saying"

time to test tipu and underwater version of shaheen-1.

but any picture of the indian missile or anpther drdo fireworks?

best part is that ..... the indian missile 'failed to validate all the mission parameters' ... i.e. it was a failure.

so lets test one that isn't a failure

"This is going to start a new arms race in the region"

Sounds like the green light to our SLBM has been given.

Anyone knows the splash site of the missile? Some source says the launching is a success, but the missile is missing after launching.

another drdo firework!

good. can anyone posts some news about the missile's failure? thank you.

Does Pakistan have a similar missile that you can set off from sea?

yes. Ghauri-1 can be launched from ship and Ghauri-2 from Agosta.

Did not know that great

Either im a lost case or he is.......

Considering the size of the tube in Augusta i guess babur would have been a better guess but Ghuari II kills that whole post of his...

Just check the size of that Missile out... I guess same applies to ghuri one... so far i doubt we have missile or lets say i doubt we have a declared missile which could be fired from ship..

we can put the moble truck of the Shaheen-1 or Ghauri-1 above a ship. Agosta-90 is huge submarine. it is a matter of time to put Ghauri-2 in them. note that Pakistan made agosta with transfer of technology.

thats just dumb.... btw how many missile can u fire from one truk. u need storage space for missiles and wher u plad to position that bloody truck and beside what abt the head generated during the launch?? wouldnt that melt the ship where the truck is parked...


well how u gonna fire missile from Augusta? well thrugh tube and tube has certain size and no current BM dont fitt the size.

just make a ship with some hangers like a landing dock platform which carry helicopter. put 10 ghauri and and 5 shaheen there. through them to open ocean when a war brakes. we will have a good second strike capacity with less investment. one nuclear submarine requr atleast 1.5 billion dolr!!

make a small version of this one and put some hangers... no weaons...no torpedo no anti ship missile only some SAM and radar..... will cost $600 million......problem solved!!

HAHAHA

u feeling alrite at this moment... we are talking abt present and not future beside y waste money on somthing that feels childesh, we can work on the missile so we can fit it in sub or launch it from ship. but thats redesigning hte missile.

joder

muhahahahahah listen peanut brain ...think 10 times before u post.

You guys are all just jealous of his idea lol

And you saying that you arent

SPEEDY
enjoy

What about the Jalalt Class Fast Missile Boats? Can't they do the job anyway? They are indeginously made.

Clear up some misconception... Ghauri can not be launched from a sub... Babur will probably be the one that is tested (if one is tested that is)...

hahahhahahaha.. yeah let him put this truck one on his head, submerge and then fire. We have an SLBM boys. Rejoice. hahahahahaha

Why doesn't the PN just put one it's mobile launcher trucks on the ship?? Instead of a helicopter on the deck, it will be replaced with a truck and the missle. I can picture it.

zjoseph man are you really in your senses how a BM could be fired from a ship or even from a submarine when it is not design for that purpose SLBM are specially desing for fired from or under the sea.

You guys are all jealous of the idea. Instead, I gave it a lot of thought.

So, expanding a little on Joseph's idea :

We can load mobile or even immobile trucks on some kind of floating platforms or attach floatation devices, like balloons under them.

I mean, just imagine a floating mobile truck on the sea!!

No ship needed at all!!



Stop hating on the man.
BTW Joseph, better be careful when backing the trucks into those ships!!

He never said SLBM.

Ok, its official now!!
I cant get over this idea.

What if theres a flat tire? Can we just hook up jacks under the truck and change it, or what?

Can we honk at fellow mobile truck launchers on ships when we pass them?


Can we park those mobile launchers on the shore so a Divine Wind will pick'em up, so now we can have flying- mobile- launchers?

Ganging up on a poor kid!!
Comeon guys leave him alone !

details and inside view of Pontoon for K-15 Missile launch

http://www.drdo.org/pub/techfocus/aug04/missile13.htm

This is how it was done.

http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/27/stories/2008022757940100.htm

Sagarika missile test-fired successfully

T.S. Subramanian

India joins select club in underwater missile capability


CHENNAI: India on Tuesday proved that it had the capability to launch missiles from underwater by test-firing successfully the Sagarika missile from a pontoon off the coast of Visakhapatnam. The pontoon simulated the conditions of a submarine.

Shortly after noon, the missile’s booster ignited and Sagarika rose from the pontoon. Then in a spectacular display of firepower, it cleaved out of the waters of the Bay of Bengal and tore into the atmosphere as the air-booster erupted into life. It impacted the sea over 700 km away.

‘A proving trial’


“It is through. There was no problem,” said a Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) missile technologist. “It is a proving trial. It has been consistently successful. This is not the first time that we have launched the missile. We have done it earlier a few times although it went by different names.”

The tactical, submarine-to-surface missile, is a light, miniaturised system, which is about 6.5 metres long and weighs seven tonnes. Powered by solid propellants, it can carry a payload of about 500 kg. It can be launched from different platforms — from the ground, from underwater and mobile launchers.

In a couple of years, India will be able to fire the Sagarika from a submarine. Ultimately, it will be launched from the indigenous nuclear-powered submarine under construction at Kalpakkam in Tamil Nadu and Visakhapatnam. The missile can carry both nuclear and conventional warheads.

DRDO missile technologists said the successful launch almost completed the country’s triad of minimum, credible nuclear deterrence from sea, land and air.

“It is a great day for the country’s missile technology and national defence capability. We are getting into the possibility of completing the triad. This successful launch will give us the sea capability,” they said.

The missile has the latest technologies in aerodynamics, control and guidance and navigation, a scientist said.

Sagarika was developed at the DRDO’s missile complex in Hyderabad. The complex consists of the Defence Research and Development Laboratory (DRDL), the Advanced Systems Laboratory (ASL) and the Research Centre, Imarat (RCI).

While the missile was designed and developed by the DRDL, the ASL provided the motors and propulsion systems. The RCI’s contribution was in avionics, including control and guidance systems and inertial navigation systems.

M. Natarajan, Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister; V.K. Saraswat, Chief Controller (Missile and Strategic Systems), DRDO; Prahlada, Chief Controller, R and D, DRDO; Avinash Chander, Director, ASL; P. Venugopalan, Director, DRDL; and A.K. Chakrabarti of DRDL watched the launch of Sagarika from a vessel. Mr. Chakrabarti played an important role in the launch.

There were no men on board the pontoon when Sagarika took off. A naval ship was positioned kilometres away from it.

The DRDO had placed the missile’s fire control systems on the ship and the pontoon and the vessel were connected by a cable.
-------------------------------------

http://www.hindu.com/2008/02/28/stories/2008022854211000.htm

Editorials


The successful test of the Sagarika missile marks a public declaration of the progress India has made towards establishing its own submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) capability. Nuclear warheads delivered by aircraft, land-based ballistic missiles, and SLBMs together form the deadly ‘triad’ considered necessary for ‘stable nuclear deterrence,’ whatever that means in this day and age. Carried onboard by specially designed nuclear-powered submarines that can lurk undetected in the depths of the ocean for months at a time, the SLBM promises a devastating riposte should a nuclear first-strike by an enemy destroy or severely cripple the country’s air- and land-based nuclear weapon systems. The political implications of the latest test are a matter of serious concern, with Pakistan registering its protest against what it sees as a new phase in a South Asian arms race. Technologically, launching ballistic missiles from a submarine moving underwater requires a series of complex steps. Powerful gas generator systems must be activated to eject each missile from the vertical tube in which it is carried onboard the submarine. The missile’s rocket motor must fire as soon as it breaks the ocean surface and the onboard guidance system must quickly orient the missile along the correct launch trajectory. India has proven solid propulsion technology within the civilian space programme as well as the missile programme run by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO). The February 26 test was carried out from a submerged pontoon that performed the role of a submarine’s missile tube. The success of this test, as also of previous ones — DRDO officials have now disclosed — indicate mastery of the intricacies of launching a ballistic missile underwater.

For SLBM capability, the ballistic missile is only half the story. In the 1970s, India embarked on the Advanced Technology Vessel (ATV) project to build a nuclear-powered submarine. For years, a key problem was developing a nuclear reactor compact enough to fit inside a submarine. Using highly enriched uranium produced at the Rare Materials Project near Mysore, the miniature reactor became fully operational only in December 2004. Media reports speak of a plan to build by 2015 a fleet of three nuclear submarines, each carrying 12 nuclear-tipped ballistic missiles. It is instructive, however, to remember that although China launched its first Xia-class nuclear submarine capable of carrying ballistic missiles in 1981, a missile was successfully launched from it only seven years later. The political implications aside, Indian defence scientists and naval personnel have several technological hurdles to overcome before they achieve their dream of SLBM capability.

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/us-endorses-in...st/59914-3.html

US endorses India's K-15 missile test

New Delhi: India on Tuesday successfully test-fired the submarine-launched ballistic missile from under the sea off the Vizag coastline. Codenamed K-15, the test-fire extended India’s critical third leg of the nuclear triad to sea.


It was perhaps the most significant milestone in India's nuclear weaponisation since the Pokhran test in May 1998. This will give India its deadliest nuclear strike weapon and its most assured capability to retaliate against a nuclear attack by an enemy.


But on a day it could have thumped its chest, India kept absolutely silent. The reason was the visiting US Defence Secretary Robert Gates, who is presently in New Delhi. But Gates, perhaps, surprised his hosts by strongly endorsing the missile test.


"India's the world's largest democracy. It is in our interest to develop this relationship just as much as it is in India's interest. I don't think there's any risk, particularly from US standpoint,” Gates says.

The message is that the US is not only comfortable, but also supportive of India's rise as a bigger power. Moreover, it sees a considerable military element in its growing ties with India.

I am not suprised at all on the issue of USA addorsing India over this issue. USA did the same in 1998 when India detonated five nuclear devices. But when Pakistan retaliated there was much moaning and b!tch!ng. Even if tomorrow Pakistan did the same there wotuld be the same response.

So buddy keep in mind that India and USA are bed partners on every issue. Only Pakistani leadership can't see and feel it. They always get f_u_c_k_e_d up on the name of the so called Friendship and Allies and much more. Pakistani people don't want to continue this. But alas we can't do anything.

you guys are all jealous of my idea. thats it...i going to make patent of my idea, then you will believe!!!

Yes..Go ahead..All the great people are labelled as mad men in their initial stages...coool...

Pakistan Navy is actively involved in a series of procurements, the news indians trying to acheive sub launch missile capability would definately influence the submarine options that PN has in mind. In my opinion, we should be going for something on the lines of what could launch cruise missiles. Ofcourse it means that PN should be looking for a heavier class sub which has the capacity to launch a significant number of cruise missiles. Apart from Agosta-90Bs and U-214s, the Chinese subs could offer something on those lines of what we require! Possibly 054s!?

I wonder what monkey business americans will run we do it ?

they haven't said much for last couple of years ... for all our tests

Not sure if we will completely rely on the Chinese for larger submarines...I think we may try to pull off a Brazil-like agreement with France. DCN/France agreed to assist Brazil with the non-nuclear components of their SSN - which I imagine is essentially the submarine. Of course there will be areas where Chinese assistance will be sought - particularly in engines, turbo-generators & propulsion turbines for the submarine if we have trouble with Western companies.

Would be cool if we could just get the Barracuda Class hull and fit it MTU engine & use fuel-cell-based AIP...maybe get Chinese assistance in VLS on submarines...use a possible 2000-2500km range Babur SLCM...and maybe later use the Strategic-SSK as a basis for a new SSBN.

What's so funny? It seems it can work

QUOTE(saint @ Feb 29 2008, 02:07 PM)


What's so funny? It seems it can work

No it can not work, especially with the stability concerns, melt down and the huge burden on the ship itself, it's like strapping a full sized 2 door refrigerator on an elephant and try to pass the road height limit barriers with the elephant crawling on his knees !

However, rest assured just like the BM race in the sub-continent PA / GOP will now work overtime to do follow up on this eventuality and the best would be to see the reactions of USA & our neighbours !

army missile/navy type missiles are different you just can't put same missiles in navy ships and in army trucks.objectives are different so range etc everything will be different you can load big ass missiles on trucks but for navy like Pakistan navy size and load should be reduced so it can carry large number of missiles.i think this type of discussion should end here lets head back to the thread stop that truck crap on ship....

Is this the new joke thread?.

thank you man you got it. i think you are more intellegent than normal persons and innovative like me!!!


people cannot understand why stability will not be a problem to launch a 30 ton missile from a 3000 ton ship!!!!

--Editted--

back to the thread, it seems like the missile test is a preliminary one, there is still a long way to go with this weapon to make it properly usable, likely to take years. Given DRDO's previous record of meeting deadlines (or not as the case maybe), the indians are years away from weaponising such a weapon.

Interesting how Pakistan has gone for the air launched cruise missile first (Ra'ad), while the indians for a underwater based one.

Actually the project has been years in development and is in the final stages now.



The Brahmos has a air launched version that'll use the MKI as a platform.


On a side note, both India and Pakistan have Exocets that can be air launched. The Indian platform is the Jaguar. I don't know about Pakistan. The P3C Orion is definitely one.

Pakistan has a squadron of mirages dedicated for this purpose.

Yes thats correct, its more on the lines of Mirage V/PDA2s which are permanently earmarked for Pakistan Navy.