H Khan on PakDef brought up Brunei's Nakhoda Class OPV/corvettes out of nowhere - although did not say anything about PN procuring them.

They would mark a definite improvement in PN...they're better armed in AAW & ASW than F-22P. Around this time last year the PN also requested 6 OHPs from U.S., the USN said the first would be available from 2009. From early 2009 the PN would also have its first F-22P in service...as well as more P-3Cs and the P-3B Hawkeye-2000 AEW&C. I expect our Agosta-70s to be upgraded soon as well.

the latest issue of Warships IFR had some detail about the Nakhoda class OPV. The article said that some countries like Pakistan might be interested in the ships. H Khan probably got his info from there. Your right in that they are very well-armed for an OPV.

Did the article mention Pakistan? Recall that Pakistan scrapped the Castle class OPV buy from the U.K and has been in negotiations with Germany on naval matters for quite a while now...important because Brunei handed the marketing of these ships to the firm Lürssen.

From 2009 the U.S. may also release OHPs in response to the PN request for six frigates, and from 2009 should also begin receiving F-22P.

I didn't know brunei's language had farsi elements, naakhuda means captain of a boat afaik.

It didn't specifically say that Pakistan was interested and negotiating but rather that Pakistan is also in the market for boats to induct and may be interested.

By the way, I've heard that the German firm is asking a very high price for the ships (somewhere around $900m or so) so doubt we'd pursue the option here.

regards.

Well these are new ships and if they meet PN's requirements and are better than F-22p I would actually go for them. WHy would anyone with a sane mind want to wait for another few years for new ships of approximately the same standards when they are already available to be purchased now??

Mark was talking about the Nakhoda as an interim measure, not a replacement for F-22P

Nakhoda vs. F-22P

1,941 tonne vs. 2500 tonne
Exocet 70km vs. C-802 120km
Seawolf 6km vs FM-90 12km
Oto Melara gun 110 rpm vs AK-176 gun 125 rpm
CIWS 650 rpm vs. CIWS 5000rpm
$323 million vs. $180 million (including helicopter)

F-22P is SUCHHHHH a better deal, not to mention the ToT we will get.

And I think we will have all 4 F-22Ps by 2010.

Londo, who is this Chic in your Avatar?

Yea right no Castle class OPV but this one. PN`s frigate urgency is very real. Oliver Hazard Perry class wouldnt be available for Pakistan before 2009 . While , Type-21s desperately need replacement in form of F-22P. Turkish Milgems are in development and its experience will help Turks in developing their own frigate which will again be dependent on lot of Nato standard gadgets. F-22P is the best deal considering it not only provides new platforms that can be used in service for a long time as these are first new surface platforms for PN but can undergo upgrades according to Pn`s requirements with time. Once you start making them. You can try new designs and development as well. F-22P will be the first step towards indigenization of warships.

She's an anchor for Geo TV... Sana Tariq
Lets just say I watch the news every day now

WHile similar in armament, the Nakhoda design is a reduced version of the Lekiu class built by the same yard for Malaysia. This would be a more comparable, possibly superior ship relative to F22P:
2,270t
2x4 MM40 Exocet block II
16 Seawolf VL (10km, due to booster stage that non-VL does not have, and accurate enough to intercept 4.5 inch / 114 mm shells.)
1x Bofors 57mm gun
2 x MSI 30mm guns
2 x Whitehead 324mm B515 triple-tube torpedo launchers
flight deck and hangar for e.g. AgustaWestland Lynx

Neither Lekiu nor Nakhoda has a gun-CIWS. They use VL Sea Wolf for the anti-missile role. The AK630s on F22P can do 3000 rounds/min, but their cartridge is much less powerfull than that of the MSI 30mm guns. Both do about 3km against air targets. MSI 30mm guns - also used on UK Type 45 - do up to 10km against surface targets (and I suspect they outrange AK630 in that role).

But the Leiku class is not available for purchase.... so...?

Nakhoda and Leiku use the same weapon-systems.

Yeah mate she is hot!!

Indeed she is

How does that help?

It's a better quality weapons, electronics and command suite, IIRC.

The advantage of the Nakhoda option is that some such ships may be available immediately, in the aftermath of the settlement of the dispute between BEA System and the Brunei government, which had Brunei accept delivery of these ships while it does not intend to commisison them.

I don't see why PN couldn't order a couple of ships similar to Lekiu from the UK builder, just like it could order a couple similar to the Nakhoda over and above those delivered to Brunei (if these were purchased by Pakistan from Brunei).

IIRC the Malaysians are looking arm the 2nd Lekiu batch with ESSM.

Double the price for roughly the same capability, seems like throwing money away to me.

F-22P doesn't have a PDMS nor ASW capability of this calibre...Nakhoda is of higher capability. Thus far we only have 5 submarines - all of them based off the 1970s Agosta-design - with 3 being of modern standard - that is our ASW capability as of now! There is no guarantee that we will get OHPs from 2009, and even if we do the PN might spend some time upgrading them for multi-mission capability. Then the question of to what extent can it upgrade for a reasonable price? Is it worthwhile to pull an Australia-style upgrade worth $225mn/ship...or will we just stick with RAM, Harpoon and the ASW it should come with...and how much will that cost us?

The Nakhodas do give us a better punch because they not only supplement the F-22Ps in defence, but also give us a full ASW network involving submarines, surface ships & aircraft. If we can get them for a decent price, then our capabilities would expand at a relatively rapid pace alongside the F-22P, P-3C and Hawkeye-2000 inductions. Plus with the Nakhodas in our service, I am confident that we would be able to order new-build F2000s at a lower rate and have them in service before 2015...plus through them we can attain medium-range air defence sooner than later.

In the long-term with the induction of newer submarines, larger frigates & newer corvettes...these F2000-variants, F-22P and the Agosta-90Bs can serve as a 2nd-tier navy for defensive purposes. We would at least be able to properly retain these vessels...and heck imagine using these to train our crew as well...or having a paramilitary naval-guard of this calibre!

Interesting, I was not aware of their ASW capabilities. If they really can network with submarines and aircraft efficiently, then I guess you have a point there.

You mentioned medium range air defense... I thought nakhoda's air defence range topped out at 10km?

The Malaysians are equipping their next 2 Lekiu's with ESSM...plus their next batch will probably have a cleaner hull than the current type (stealthier).

http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/lekiu/

A Lekiu class ship would be a very nice replacement for the aging Type 21s, especially if with 2x4 Harpoon or the latest air-breathing variant of Exocet and with 32 ESSM rather than 16 Sea Wolf




LENGTH 105.50m
BEAM 12.75m
DISPLACEMENT 1845 tons / 2270 tons
ARMAMENT 8/MM 40 Exocet SSM
1x Sea Wolf SAM vertical launch system (16m)
1x 57mm 70-cal. Bofors SAK 57 Mk 2 DP
2x DSB 30mm AA
2x 3/324mm ASW TT
MACHINERY 4 diesels; 2 CP props; 40000 shp
SPEED 28.5 knots
RANGE 5200 / 14
COMPLEMENT 146 awak
AIRCRAFT 1/AS 355MN Fennec helicopter
Radars:
surface search: Ericsson Sea Giraffe, G/h band
air search: Thales Nederland DA08, E/f band
fire contro: 2x model 1802 I/J band
navigation: Tthales Defence I band navigation radar
Sonar:
hull mounted Spherion TSM 2633 LF

I think new built F2000s are really on the pricy side...for PN to spend that amount, we need to be looking at a quick delivery.

Well the news is that UAE is interested in buying them--and this being the case Pakistan doesn't stand a chance in getting these ships!

Meh...if UAE wants them, it should get them - not much of an issue for PN. At the end of the day we will have a robust fleet...just our immediate needs for a Type-21 replacement & expanded fleet model is dire. I think another option might be to order 4-6 Type-054As from Chinese shipyards for delivery by 2015.

But PN needs these ships immediately…I have to say it is pretty bad planning on the part of some to leave things to the last minute..it’s really bad.

Has nothing to do with planning, but things simply (like the politics & economics) out of our control...PN has been after used FFGs since 2004.