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instantexcess
Pakistan’s Economic success: Mercy of 9/11 or Macro-Economic Policies?


The 1990’s was a lost decade for Pakistan, mismanagement at its helm and corruption rampant. Formation of failed policies, coupled with sheer incompetence and lack of commitment, kept deteriorating the economy of the fragile Country. Benazir’s era was further characterized by ungoverned manipulation and personal extravagance of her husband Zardari.

By 1999, not only were the billion Foreign Reserves misspent without any accountability, but it also shattered the confidence of our nation. Expatriate Pakistanis kept a cautious outlook of the situation and held their foreign reserves back.

In 1999, Revenue generation of around Rs.308 billion could not meet the growing expenditure requirements; with only an average of Rs.80 billion being spent on Public sector development programs (PSDP) annually, and no visible project to boast about. From this Rs.308 billion around 65% was being utilized for debt servicing. In 1988 our foreign debt was billion, but at the end of 1999 it had accumulated to become billion. A 100% increased burden on the already crippled economy. Public and external debt exceeded 300% of Foreign exchange earnings. Pakistan had become a highly indebted poor country. Our poverty levels also increased to become 35% according to economic survey. This glooming situation was not being dispelled.

While the world was progressing, Pakistan’s economy was stagnated. Overall there was a feeling of despondency and uncertainty. It not only lowered the morals of the business community, but also affected adversely the Foreign Direct Investment (FDI). Foreign Investment started diverting to other promising Asian markets, especially that of India for their future prospects.

Nawaz and PPP often lament that during their tenures US and IMF Aid was suspended; and that President Musharraf’s government received huge aid after 9/11 to overcome the economic problems. To set the record correct, USA and IMF aid was suspended only after the Nuclear Atomic blasts of May 1998, but that too was RESUMED later that year in November, a week before Nawaz met President Clinton in USA. Before May 1998, the governments of Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto well-received worldwide aid and assistance from USA, IMF, OPEC, European countries, ODA & OOF bilateral agreements and World Bank.

The inheritance of the ailing economy that took place after October 1999 was not an easy task for the leadership of President Musharraf. Pakistan needed quick reforms, resource allocation, stabilization of policies and alluring back the Foreign Reserves and Foreign Direct Investment.

A misperception persists within some critics that attribute completely the turning around of our economy to: US aid or 9/11. Therefore, let it be clarified that major economic indicators had improved before 9/11, and the economy had already started showing signs of recovery and revival.

In that SHORT span of 2 years BEFORE 9/11, Pakistan’s revenue increased from Rs.308 billion to become Rs.395 billion. Exports increased from .5 billion to become .2 billion. Foreign Reserves increased from $ .1 billion to become .25 billion. Debt servicing as a ratio to Revenue decreased from 65% to 57%. Public and external debt as a percentage to Foreign exchange earnings declined from 300% to 250%. Current account deficit decreased from .4 billion to become 0 million. And, Pakistan’s large-scale manufacturing grew by 11% in June 2001 against 3.5% in 1998. These facts should set aside the skeptical grumblers.

Therefore, the entire credit of stabilizing Pakistan’s economy goes to the visionary decisions, sustained macro-economic policies and financial reforms of President Musharraf and the PM Shaukat Aziz. These also highlight their good intentions and ultimate honesty. Their sense of duty towards the country, honesty and the genuine resolve to address the problems does not arise from 9/11. Unlike their predecessors who swept problems under the carpet.

Now countering the other most popular allegation, i.e. US aid enabled the recent achievements.

The annual flows Pakistan has received during the last six years amount to approximately $ 1.75 billion from all types of US assistance - military, economic, and reimbursements for logistics support. Of these flows, the aid – military and economic accounts for $ 700 million annually.

This amount is 4.5% of total foreign exchange receipts, 7.2% of total budgetary expenditures, 6.4% of total value of Imports, 4% of total Exports and 5.8% of current account receipts of Pakistan. As a proportion of GDP of Pakistan these gross flows from all sources work out to only 3%. Negligible!

These figures by all means indicate the strength of Pakistan’s booming economy and establish the FACT that Pakistan is no more dependent upon US or foreign aid. Pakistan’s economy has managed to wriggle out of their clutches.

Pakistan’s economy grew at 6.5% to emerge as a 0 billion economy in 2007. Pakistan’s Revenue now stands above Rs.700 billion; as they increased by above 100% in just 7 years. The FBR estimates that there are now around 2.8 million Income Tax payers. A fully functional Tax Management System (TMS) was implemented on International standards with the assistance of World Bank.

Pakistan’s Public sector development program (PSDP) spending increased by above 400% to become Rs.520 billion. This has initiated major infrastructure programs throughout the country, including 7 Motorways and several Highways. Bridges erected and underpasses paved. 18 new Universities are already functioning and 9 Engineering Universities under construction.

Financial reforms enabled Pakistan to emerge as the 3rd best in Banking profitability according to IMF. Pakistan globally ranks 10th most active in perusing pro-business policies. The Infrastructure Industries Index in 2007 recorded a 26.2% growth in Industrial sector of Pakistan, with large-scale manufacturing growing at 11%. The Securities and Exchange Commission of Pakistan (SECP) registered 1,135 companies in first quarter of 2007. The IT industry registered a 50% growth.

Under President Musharraf, the government spent over $ 16.7 billion on poverty alleviation programs, and managed to cut poverty from 35% in 2000-01 to 24% in 2006-07.

The Foreign Direct Investment that the President and the PM managed to attract back into the country is entirely due to their credibility, professional wisdom and personal interaction with the world. Their visionary plans predispose the world to trust them. FDI increased by $ 5.1 billion, for a year-on-year increase of 45.6%.

We as a nation should acknowledge Pakistan’s accelerating prominence in International relations, give credit open heartedly where something is achieved and criticize positively only to achieve something better. Cynicism and despondency should be avoided. Pakistan’s National interest should be held foremost and without compromise!




http://pak1stanfirst.com/2008/02/10/pakist...nomic-policies/


where is your Sirtaj Aziz now?

Yes, I am looking at you, Khawarkhan, Anxious, Saira & PZ.

There is a good reason why Musharaf supporters support him & SA.















Amjad
Only Musharaf or a MQM will like to bring back Shaukat Aziz. PML (Q) and PML (N) do not like Shaukat Aziz, since his ethnicity is not from Punjab. It was Musharf who wanted Shaukat Aziz as primeminister not PML (Q). Shaukat Aziz is liked by many people of Karachi, since he is a very well educated ex-Citibank employee, and is from Karachi.
speedyturtle
See the problem is in our system, the names instant mentioned "Khawarkhan, Anxious, Saira & PZ" are failing to understand the PROPER democracy.
Now i dont care and i am sure most of the pakistani's dont care about the democracy as long as PAKISTAN is prospering and the common poor man has got a shelter over his head and food in his and his family's belly. These people who are calling for democracy and saying that army rule is bad can and are only telling us things which the previous government did wrong. Now how about you guys tell us what nawaz and bb did good in 1990's what good things came to pakistan in 90's how much our economy grew in that democracy era?
Most of the pakistan population lives in villages and they got these wadera's and chaudary's on top and what these guys say goes or else the poor farmers are in trouble that is NOT democracy.
As for pakistan economy it was prospering and things were going just fine and pakistan had good reserves as well and now all of a sudden they are saying that there is no money, we had reports in international newspapers that pakistan was doing very well and we had good amount of reserves and all of a sudden everything is gone?
Musharraf is been trying to make kalabagh dam for a very very long time but its these politicians who are doing there politics on issues like these and now the got the cheap nerve and odosity to say the previous government did nothing when they were the ones opposing it.


SPEEDY
enjoy
khawarkhan
Dear Instant

first of all i dont want to indulge in any political conversation with any one because here if you have views other than yours you are consider as traitor or what ever and some kid try give names and positive and constructive discussion went out of way, Please came out of intelligencia mentality as they are gaining political benefit from thier opponent by calling as traitor, security risk blah blah..... iam here to learn believe me here some or many members are so knowledgable that I am feeling ver updated, coz its long time out of institute almost 11 years. specially on economis truf i want my self to update, but attitude of some ppl are very insulting which is discouraging me.

one thing specially who are out side pakistan has to realise that we can discuss any thing in more positive manner. If you have different opinion than i have to live up with you, and try to convince you.


Dear Amjad.

Mr SA elected from our region, i never saw any one talking such rubbish that he is from sindh or baloch please dont try to propagate wrong things.
instantexcess
Khawar, I never called you a traiter. However, I have frequently questioned your capability to hold an intelligent disscussion.

I doubt if anyone else called you a traiter. However, if myself (though I am pretty confident that I never have) or anyone has ever called yourself a traitor than, I sincerly appologize on my behalf & their behalf.

And if this happens in the future, please use the report function, and the mods/admin will takecare of it.

------------------------------


When #s & factual info comes into play, dare I say, you will talk of everything but the matter at hand.

My point is that SA/SS >>>>>>> DAR or anyone from PPP or N league.



At the same time I whole heartedly awknowledge that Shah Mahmood Qureshi >>>>>>> Mr. Kasuri. (but thats a discussion for a different thread).
khawarkhan
QUOTE(instantexcess @ May 4 2008, 01:11 AM) *
Khawar, I never called you a traiter. However, I have frequently questioned your capability to hold an intelligent disscussion.

I doubt if anyone else called you a traiter. However, if myself (though I am pretty confident that I never have) or anyone has ever called yourself a traitor than, I sincerly appologize on my behalf & their behalf.

And if this happens in the future, please use the report function, and the mods/admin will takecare of it.

------------------------------
When #s & factual info comes into play, dare I say, you will talk of everything but the matter at hand.

My point is that SA/SS >>>>>>> DAR or anyone from PPP or N league.
At the same time I whole heartedly awknowledge that Shah Mahmood Qureshi >>>>>>> Mr. Kasuri. (but thats a discussion for a different thread).


no you never called me traitor or i mean to say that ppl thought here and many ppl called by other names also and regarding capabilities to hold discussion some time you are taking me as anti mush and co if you take me as anti x, y z than you can not analyze things in that perspective which iam looking at. i voted in 2002 to SHK Rashid coz i knew from beging that he will join Mush Independently but he join same camp with chaudaries, and you saw the result, i mean to say that i never was hater of mush but i saw some policies of Mush very damaging for Pakistan and i do discuss those as well for SA i do discuss those. and its my personal views not heard from any one or read in news paper.

again this is your opinion tha SA> any one. I am not a big admiror of dar but for me he is ok. but i like Iqbal ehsan, M javed Hashmi, and some other also, from pp i was admireor of Malik Mairaj Khalid. in Q league I was admiror of sharpness of Mushahid Hussain but he is not politically honest person but i do like him. so these are my personal views every one has to right to differ from it.

Again Iappologise from you and all PDF members that some time i might have said somthing harsh. iam here being learner.

regards



instantexcess
I sincerly believe that Musharaf + SA + Salman Shah etc are lesser of the two evils.

The other evil offcourse = Zardari + Nawaz.

And both the current coallation & President should complete their terms. As thats the only way for long term stability. i.e. people learning to live with their most bitter rivals.

And I also believe that the positives of the last era should contribute in some form. If anything, the likes of SA can be advisor to the current PM over financial matters, if nothing else.

must7
Only Musharaf or a MQM will like to bring back Shaukat Aziz. PML (Q) and PML (N) do not like Shaukat Aziz, since his ethnicity is not from Punjab. It was Musharf who wanted Shaukat Aziz as primeminister not PML (Q). Shaukat Aziz is liked by many people of Karachi, since he is a very well educated ex-Citibank employee, and is from Karachi.

To have a strong Pakistan we must rise above the issue of ethnic politics .. only than will we rise above others.

The question above is were the policies of SA better than of today's Dar ?
ZPak
You need two hands to clap. Parties like the MQM are trying to get out of ethnic politics and push themselves toward a more national approach. Last I remember PML-N had managed to put interprovicial disharmony at an all time high.

I wonder how many Urdu-speaking members are part of the PML-N?
instantexcess
QUOTE
I wonder how many Urdu-speaking members are part of the PML-N?


thats as bad as asking how many punjabi-speaking members are part of the PML-N

Not every punjabi is enrolled in N, if anything N failed to gain majority in its own province.

OmaR UK
Pakistan's foreign exchange reserves fall to $12.611 billion

KARACHI (May 03 2008): The country's foreign exchange reserves fell by $41 million to $12.611 billion in the week that ended on April 26, the State Bank of Pakistan said on Friday. Reserves held by the central bank fell to $10.367 billion from $10.447 billion a week earlier, while those held by commercial banks rose to $2.244 billion from $2.204 billion.

Forex reserves hit an all-time high of $16.486 billion on October 31. 2007, but then fell sharply, partly because of outflows from the stock market after President Pervez Musharraf imposed emergency rule on November 3.
instantexcess
i like how our independent media is blaming Musharaf still ... even though its Dar+current setup that no one has any confidence in.

Mark Sien
QUOTE(instantexcess @ May 4 2008, 01:42 PM) *
i like how our independent media is blaming Musharaf still ... even though its Dar+current setup that no one has any confidence in.

Why not...the stolen ForEx money is funding GEO these days lol.
khawarkhan
Hazrat mush is so innocent he dont know about corruption thats why he let zardari come to pakistan:

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=14511

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=110683

ISLAMABAD: Scandalous details of a special class of political appointees, hired on embarrassingly high salaries during the last six years, reveal how generously the President Musharraf-led military regime spent hundreds of millions from the taxpayersí money for their blue-eyed boys.

Called Management Pay (MP) scales, the number of such appointees during the last six years is said to be higher than the total number of such appointments made in the past. A very small number of those appointed against the MP scales were hired on merit and through a transparent procedure while majority remained pure political appointees, including retired military and civilian officers.
instantexcess
No matter, who was appointed, we saw the results, the economy did well, so did 99% of other institutes.

& pakistanis seem completely unaware of how a quality management team is selected and retained.

Just take a look at the example of Rick Wagoner :) the man walked away with $14 million this year.

-------------------------------------

And the topic is about SA & his excpetional performance, awards & awards for those he appointed from the international community.

When DAR & Nawaz get some recognition from international institutes, than we might even bother speaking of these two in the same sentence as SA & SS.
Tamerlane
I wonder what will happen first - this government will fall or Pakistan will go bankrupt?
Mark Sien
QUOTE(Tamerlane @ May 5 2008, 02:22 AM) *
I wonder what will happen first - this government will fall or Pakistan will go bankrupt?

Knowing how lazy Pakistanis are, it'll go bankrupt first...then the govt and this whole democracy business will be flown out the door.
Bilal
QUOTE
Hazrat mush is so innocent he dont know about corruption thats why he let zardari come to pakistan:


Khawar you tink top of the line professionals come in cheap?
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 4 2008, 11:46 PM) *
Hazrat mush is so innocent he dont know about corruption thats why he let zardari come to pakistan:

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=14511

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=110683

ISLAMABAD: Scandalous details of a special class of political appointees, hired on embarrassingly high salaries during the last six years, reveal how generously the President Musharraf-led military regime spent hundreds of millions from the taxpayersí money for their blue-eyed boys.

Called Management Pay (MP) scales, the number of such appointees during the last six years is said to be higher than the total number of such appointments made in the past. A very small number of those appointed against the MP scales were hired on merit and through a transparent procedure while majority remained pure political appointees, including retired military and civilian officers.



Khawarkhan this is why no one takes you serious,
When Musharraf led regime is alleged to have 3,281 house to government worker you describe it as

QUOTE
" Scandalous details of a special class of political appointees, hired on embarrassingly high salaries during the last six years, reveal how generously the President Musharraf-led military regime spent hundreds of millions from the taxpayersí money for their blue-eyed boys."


When Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani talks about giving one million houses to government employee you describe it as

QUOTE(khawarkhan @ Apr 19 2008, 07:36 AM) *
man he is making these schemes for govt employees not for unemployed and govt employees are getting 6000 to 15000 in most of deptt and after serving govt deptt for 20 to 30 years they got 5 to 600000, or maximum 100000 Rs for which they can not buy home even after thier jobs. they cant buy place to hide themselves. and i think this is good step if this process complets with out any prob (politica, social,ethical).

regards

http://pakistanidefenceforum.com//index.ph...c=74923&hl=

Khawarkhan why do you need to be such a hypocrite.

(Khawarkhan have you checked the figures quoted in this article http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=14511 because they don't make sense, I do not want to further embarrass you by showing why these figures are ridiculous so i first let you try to work out why they are wrong)
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 02:19 AM) *
Khawarkhan this is why no one takes you serious,
When Musharraf led regime is alleged to have 3,281 house to government worker you describe it as
When Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani talks about giving one million houses to government employee you describe it as
http://pakistanidefenceforum.com//index.ph...c=74923&hl=

Khawarkhan why do you need to be such a hypocrite.

(Khawarkhan have you checked the figures quoted in this article http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=14511 because they don't make sense, I do not want to further embarrass you by showing why these figures are ridiculous so i first let you try to work out why they are wrong)


I dont know wats wrong with youwhy u thoght i want attention from any one if you believe so you are mistaken. hahahha man you can go to such level to protect your so called commando that you cant compare what is right and what is wrong and prove it to me that these are given to govt employees and with proper legal ways.

but i forgot to thank you, you did prove in one other thread that SA showed wrong figures just to show GDP up to 7+ %, but reporter was dumb he reduced more than that what actually you showed. it was 6.85 % not 7.2 or 7 % or 6.5 as per artical. good going keep it up and try to negate 2nd report also. for example given below the name of person whose work we pakistanis are feeling till now he gave us alternative energy source that is not to use .....

The details of those appointed on contract basis only in MP-I and MP-II scales in the public sector organisations during the period 01-01-2002 to 15-03-2008 include Air Marshal (retd) Shahid Hamid, chief executive Alternate Energy Development Board

and try to make connection between this property scandla and fire of property division bldg karachi. i hope it will clear the picture of golden period.

regards
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 02:44 AM) *
but i forgot to thank you, you did prove in one other thread that SA showed wrong figures just to show GDP up to 7+ %, but reporter was dumb he resuced more that what actually you showed. it was 6.85 % not 7.2 or 7 % or 6.5 as per artical. good going keep it up and try to negate 2nd report also.

regards


khawarkhan every article you seem to find is written by a dumb journalist, why aren't you able to think for yourself instead of relying on third rate articles

Lets look at the other article you posted a link to.

QUOTE
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=14511
ISLAMABAD: Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani has cancelled with immediate effect 3,281 eligibility certificates issued by outgoing MQM housing minister Syed Safwanullah for government properties and accommodations in Karachi estimated to be worth Rs 450 billion


With a exchange rate of Rs 60 -£ 1
Rs 450 billion, equal $7.5 billion

7,500,000,000/3281 = 2,285,888.4

So according to this article each of these government houses was worth $2.3 million

I wish every simple government house in Paksitan was worth $2.3 million, but this obviously incorrect.

khawarkhan as no one takes these article serious, no one will take you serious either.

When you are trying to make a point you need to provide SOLID evidence not gutter trash.
must7
QUOTE(Tamerlane @ May 5 2008, 02:22 AM)
I wonder what will happen first - this government will fall or Pakistan will go bankrupt?

Knowing how lazy Pakistanis are, it'll go bankrupt first...then the govt and this whole democracy business will be flown out the door.


Mark : You words hit us in the pit ! So sad & true.
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 02:55 AM) *
khawarkhan every article you seem to find is written by a dumb journalist, why aren't you able to think for yourself instead of relying on third rate articles

Lets look at the other article you posted a link to.
With a exchange rate of Rs 60 -£ 1
Rs 450 billion, equal $7.5 billion

7,500,000,000/3281 = 2,285,888.4

So according to this article each of these government houses was worth $2.3 million

I wish every simple government house in Paksitan was worth $2.3 million, but this obviously incorrect.

khawarkhan as no one takes these article serious, no one will take you serious either.

When you are trying to make a point you need to provide SOLID evidence not gutter trash.


i dont know much about property in karachi but i know we have one plot on murree road near commitee chowk : govt value for that plot i dont know but market rate for that plot 2 years back almost .5m$ and we didnt sell that ..... but my point is not the maount but corruption is corruption if 1$ or 1 MN $ intentions are same means corruption.


you try to be very smart but bro sometimes....

when same writer write against nawaz sharif and other political parties other than Hazrat Mush and q league than no one said its rubbish but on simple news three pages discussion and in that you reponded also. at that moment u never thought about this dumb journalist why ??? i ll tell you y? this is called hypocracy.

for your convenience pls: enjoy.

http://pakistanidefenceforum.com//index.ph...74367&st=40

smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 03:34 AM) *
i dont know much about property in karachi


You don't know much about economics either

QUOTE
'khawarkhan' post
but i know we have one plot on murree road near commitee chowk : govt value for that plot i dont know but market rate for that plot 2 years back almost .5m$ and we didnt sell that .....


So you have a master in economics and a master in management and your family are millionaires (I would be very interested to learn how your family came to own all these plots including the one which is worth $5m, your familiy name is not Zardari is it).

It seems your lies get bigger and bigger, next you will tell us about your Noble peace prize and how you have found a cure for HIV

khawarkhan you are turing out to be the comedian of PDF
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 03:44 AM) *
You don't know much about economics either

GROW UP NOW AND REPLY, IT WONT HELP YOU BY RPEATING SAME AND SAME IN EVERY POST OF YOURS.

So you have a master in economics and a master in management and your family are millionaires (I would be very interested to learn how your family came to own all these plots including the one which is worth $5m, your familiy name is not Zardari is it).

I NEVER SAID I WE MEAN MY RELATIVES(MY MISTAKE APPOLOGISE) IAM FROM LOWER MIDDLE CLASS AND IF I WOULD HAVE MILLIONS I WOULD PREFER PAKISTAN ANY TIME OVER UAE.

It seems your lies get bigger and bigger, next you will tell us about your Noble peace prize and how you have found a cure for HIV
THANK YOU.

khawarkhan you are turing out to be the comedian of PDF


BY DOING SO YOU CAN NOT HIDE YOUR HYPOCRACY REPLY ME WHY DOUBLE STANDARD FOR SAME REPORTER.

WHAT EVER COMEDIAN OR SO BUT WHAT I THINK IAM PORTRAYING HERE NOT LIKE YOU COPY PASTE MASTER.

REGARDS
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 05:01 AM) *
BY DOING SO YOU CAN NOT HIDE YOUR HYPOCRACY REPLY ME WHY DOUBLE STANDARD FOR SAME REPORTER.

WHAT EVER COMEDIAN OR SO BUT WHAT I THINK IAM PORTRAYING HERE NOT LIKE YOU COPY PASTE MASTER.

REGARDS


THERE IS NO NEED TO SHOUT.

khawarkhan you paste links to dodgy article and then you have cheek to try to call me a copy and paste master.

When I have repeatedly highlighted the mistakes in your article I have used ANALYSIS, this is when you take data and interpret what it means, so that you can see whether it is correct or not.

khawarkhan I think you need to try start thinking for yourself rather regugitating any old RANTING and RAVING that you have come across on the internet.
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 05:23 AM) *
THERE IS NO NEED TO SHOUT.

khawarkhan you paste links to dodgy article and then you have cheek to try to call me a copy and paste master.

When I have repeatedly highlighted the mistakes in your article I have used ANALYSIS, this is when you take data and interpret what it means, so that you can see whether it is correct or not.

khawarkhan I think you need to try start thinking for yourself rather regugitating any old RANTING and RAVING that you have come across on the internet.



sorry iam not shouting at all. iam ver calm.

mind you these are not my articles and i do read in diff news paper and try to share as you ppl share articles of ur choice. simple isnt it. but why it is so when same writer writes against your liking than he is garbage and when he writes about your choice than every one says ohh we saw first time some one talkin some sense. simple question why????? hypocracy.

but you again missed my point it is not about how much, more or less or blah blah but why? you yourself calculated GDP diff which were less than actual i never bothered about %age but why some one wanna make us fool. here again if amount is exagurated and it will be as reporter, ppl like to add more salt but why they do?? and it can not be wrong or mistake at such level. if you denied this report give us link and please note that there is hell of difference between article and news .... this is news.

regards
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 05:49 AM) *
sorry iam not shouting at all. iam ver calm.

mind you these are not my articles and i do read in diff news paper and try to share as you ppl share articles of ur choice. simple isnt it. but why it is so when same writer writes against your liking than he is garbage and when he writes about your choice than every one says ohh we saw first time some one talkin some sense. simple question why????? hypocracy.

but you again missed my point it is not about how much, more or less or blah blah but why? you yourself calculated GDP diff which were less than actual i never bothered about %age but why some one wanna make us fool. here again if amount is exagurated and it will be as reporter, ppl like to add more salt but why they do?? and it can not be wrong or mistake at such level. if you denied this report give us link and please note that there is hell of difference between article and news .... this is news.

regards


khawarkhan you are staring to make no sense at all, please check through my post, when I provide information I use credible sources such as the World Bank, State Bank of Pakistan etc.

khawarkhan do you honest believe everything that is written in Pakistani newspaper is correct and truthful, that it is all news. How many times do I have to show you errors and mistakes in the article before you realise the truth

Your RANTING and RAVING is unbelievable. You say that these newpaper 'can not be wrong or mistake at such level' while at the same time accusing Shakaut Aziz of lying about GDP figures.

khawarkhan I think you need to do a lot of soul searching for you to realise why no one takes you serious.
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 06:28 AM) *
khawarkhan you are staring to make no sense at all, please check through my post, when I provide information I use credible sources such as the World Bank, State Bank of Pakistan etc.

khawarkhan do you honest believe everything that is written in Pakistani newspaper is correct and truthful, that it is all news. How many times do I have to show you errors and mistakes in the article before you realise the truth

Your RANTING and RAVING is unbelievable. You say that these newpaper 'can not be wrong or mistake at such level' while at the same time accusing Shakaut Aziz of lying about GDP figures.

khawarkhan I think you need to do a lot of soul searching for you to realise why no one takes you serious.

what ihave to go to jungle for this and start thinking k bhai smeg bhai wont believe me ohhhhhhh god plsssssssssssssssss give the soul on which mera bhai will belive..............


man i never said that these news papers are naoozbillah word of god or somthing like that but why when it is for ur liking you believe in it and why if it is not of ur liking u reject it. iam not challenging ur efforts and intellectual knowledge iasked simple question......

thank you reminding me tenths time that no body take me serious. but one thing I dont care.

regards
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 07:27 AM) *
man i never said that these news papers are naoozbillah word of god or somthing like that but why when it is for ur liking you believe in it and why if it is not of ur liking u reject it. iam not challenging ur efforts and intellectual knowledge iasked simple question......


I never accept what is written in the newspapers UNLESS I can find credible evidence in other sources. So for example if a newpaper article said that Pakistan debt burden had risen during the Musharraf era I would know this is incorrect, as I had read the debt policy statement from the ministry of finance which shows otherwise.

That is the difference between me and you.

When you read something which is anti-musharraf, you jump up and down with joy and post it on PDF without spotting all the errors in the article.

Without any knowledge of economic and Pakistan economy, you keep making a fool of yourself by posting these article.

You need to study basics economics and learning about Pakistan's economy for people to take serious what you are say,
Instead when people highlight your mistakes you start accusing people of calling you names or dismissing what you are saying because they love 'Harzat Mush' etc.
instantexcess
In other news, KSE fell about 400 points, if I recall correctly, thats less than the dive it took after Emergency was imposed.

Will someone atleast fire DAR already? even if SA/SS won't be recalled....
smegster
QUOTE(instantexcess @ May 5 2008, 08:23 AM) *
In other news, KSE fell about 400 points, if I recall correctly, thats less than the dive it took after Emergency was imposed.

Will someone atleast fire DAR already? even if SA/SS won't be recalled....


With $ 12 billion in the reserve left to squander, NS won't sack DAR until the job is fully done
khawarkhan
QUOTE(instantexcess @ May 5 2008, 08:23 AM) *
In other news, KSE fell about 400 points, if I recall correctly, thats less than the dive it took after Emergency was imposed.

Will someone atleast fire DAR already? even if SA/SS won't be recalled....



400 points but how much in %age it will be brother.

regards
must7
QUOTE(instantexcess @ May 5 2008, 08:23 AM)
In other news, KSE fell about 400 points, if I recall correctly, thats less than the dive it took after Emergency was imposed.

Will someone atleast fire DAR already? even if SA/SS won't be recalled....


With $ 12 billion in the reserve left to squander, NS won't sack DAR until the job is fully done


I remember those days when people were calculating the loss which KSE made while Musharaff put up Emergency. They were calculating it as a loss ! Again this loss bomeranged within the next 7 days.

I wonder where are those people who see our finances going down.

Mind you we are not happy that this is happening and we are critisizing because we want a solution to his fall. Our hue & cry is to make our sleeping bums awakened so that some solution can be found and Dar sahab gets some akula kay chanay !
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 07:48 AM) *
I never accept what is written in the newspapers UNLESS I can find credible evidence in other sources. So for example if a newpaper article said that Pakistan debt burden had risen during the Musharraf era I would know this is incorrect, as I had read the debt policy statement from the ministry of finance which shows otherwise.

That is the difference between me and you.

When you read something which is anti-musharraf, you jump up and down with joy and post it on PDF without spotting all the errors in the article.

Without any knowledge of economic and Pakistan economy, you keep making a fool of yourself by posting these article.

You need to study basics economics and learning about Pakistan's economy for people to take serious what you are say,
Instead when people highlight your mistakes you start accusing people of calling you names or dismissing what you are saying because they love 'Harzat Mush' etc.


brother you yourself prove that GDP fell only to 6.85 not 6.5 from 7.02, u prove my point in other thread also that figures for production of wheat intentioanally inflated by SA govt. i told clearly that this is the reason and you start jumping and its on record u mentioned ur self, and by the way you can get more fair figures from news than ministry websites.

my mistake ?????? i never wrote any column or article on pdf or any news paper, so i have every right to post any thing regarding pakistan.

regards
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 09:34 AM) *
brother you yourself prove that GDP fell only to 6.85 not 6.5 from 7.02, u prove my point in other thread also that figures for production of wheat intentioanally inflated by SA govt..

regards


khawarkhan - Shaukat Aziz provided a ESTIMATE of the wheat production level. LET ME REPEAT THAT- ESTIMATE - what i showed was that if you use a the lower ESTIMATE of wheat production level then the GDP growth rate is slightly reduce. (from 7.02 down to 6.85).

Now that more information is available, new ESTIMATES of the level of wheat production have been produced which show output lower than the previous ESTIMATES.

Information from April 2008
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/ai465e/ai465e08.htm#22
QUOTE
"Similarly, a smaller wheat crop is expected in Pakistan this year. Output is forecast at one million tonnes less than last year’s record, reflecting a reduced area due to sowing delays, less availability of irrigation water and high fertilizer prices. However, output could still be 5.3 percent higher than the five-year average. ."


As is normal when using a ESTIMATE, the figure will change as new data becomes available

THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT WHEAT FIGURES WERE INTENTIONAL INFLATED BY SA Government. (why would Shakaut Aziz need to inflate the Economic growth rate from 6.85% to 7.02% when he was happy to show rate of 6.5% the previous year)

The estimate for economic growth given by Shakaut Aziz for 2004-05 was intitially 8.4% but as new data became available the GDP growth rate was increased upward to 8.6% and then up to 9.0%. Does this mean that Shakaut Aziz intentionally lied when he said that economic growth was 8.4%, when infact it was later found to be 9%, No it does not, it just show how economic ESTIMATES can change as new information becomes available.

QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 09:34 AM) *
by the way you can get more fair figures from news than ministry websites.


khawarkhan how is it possible for a single journalist to estimate economic data better than the government which employs thousands of poeple to collect data.

khawarkhan apart from buy books on basic economics, I think you also need to buy a dictionary so you can look up the meaning of the word ESTIMATE
instantexcess
QUOTE
Mind you we are not happy that this is happening and we are critisizing because we want a solution to his fall. Our hue & cry is to make our sleeping bums awakened so that some solution can be found and Dar sahab gets some akula kay chanay !



Offcourse, we are not happy. If anything, as an overseas invester i am S##ting bricks.

Rupee diving against USD, while USD falls against everything else isn't helping matters either.

I have no confidence in either the current Finance Minister or Commerce Minister. I am hoping that they will be removed with in the "100 days" as promised by MYRG unless they fix up their act soon.


@khawar,

After emergency the fall was <5%, the current one is <3%, but that should give an idea that the new guys aren't helping the political stability of the country.
speedyturtle
From TheNew
ADB reforms to be implemented
Updated at: 1925 PST, Monday, May 05, 2008
MADRID: Asian Development Bank (ADB) will give $300 million to Pakistan till June of the current year; whereas, more $650 million would be paid later.

ADB Director General Juan Miranda said this while talking to Ishaq Dar in Madrid on Sunday.

He said the bank would provide $500 million to Pakistan through a speedy system.

On this occasion, the finance minister said the reforms would be implemented in the economic sector with the help of ADB counseling.

-----------------------------------------


So we have started taking dictations from banks AGAIN remember the 90's when paksiatn was doing this and now we are going back to the same era. hitwall.gif


SPEEDY
enjoy
Mark Sien
Watch the public development, education, health and social spending budgets get cut down so fast...
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 5 2008, 10:05 AM) *
khawarkhan - Shaukat Aziz provided a ESTIMATE of the wheat production level. LET ME REPEAT THAT- ESTIMATE - what i showed was that if you use a the lower ESTIMATE of wheat production level then the GDP growth rate is slightly reduce. (from 7.02 down to 6.85).

Now that more information is available, new ESTIMATES of the level of wheat production have been produced which show output lower than the previous ESTIMATES.

Information from April 2008
http://www.fao.org/docrep/010/ai465e/ai465e08.htm#22


As is normal when using a ESTIMATE, the figure will change as new data becomes available

THIS DOES NOT PROVE THAT WHEAT FIGURES WERE INTENTIONAL INFLATED BY SA Government. (why would Shakaut Aziz need to inflate the Economic growth rate from 6.85% to 7.02% when he was happy to show rate of 6.5% the previous year)

The estimate for economic growth given by Shakaut Aziz for 2004-05 was intitially 8.4% but as new data became available the GDP growth rate was increased upward to 8.6% and then up to 9.0%. Does this mean that Shakaut Aziz intentionally lied when he said that economic growth was 8.4%, when infact it was later found to be 9%, No it does not, it just show how economic ESTIMATES can change as new information becomes available.
khawarkhan how is it possible for a single journalist to estimate economic data better than the government which employs thousands of poeple to collect data.

khawarkhan apart from buy books on basic economics, I think you also need to buy a dictionary so you can look up the meaning of the word ESTIMATE



i will ask you to buy a HOW TO ENHANCE IQ book for you and dictionary to SA also if these were estimates than why he exported wheat approx 0.6MT, i dont know means how one day he announces and within one week he exported, itnee jalde kia thee.

and one more medal for last govt, Bank Of Punjab scandal wait and see who are involved in that. and analyst are saying that this is bigger scandal than mehran bank.
khawarkhan
.
@khawar,

After emergency the fall was <5%, the current one is <3%, but that should give an idea that the new guys aren't helping the political stability of the country.
[/quote]



brother yesterday i was very dissapointed at decision of delaying by elections and PPP is involved in it, yes they are busy in other works than thier main aim but you have to agree that this is coz of one person who is doing all this.

regards
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 11:36 PM) *
i will ask you to buy a HOW TO ENHANCE IQ book for you and dictionary to SA also if these were estimates than why he exported wheat approx 0.6MT, i dont know means how one day he announces and within one week he exported, itnee jalde kia thee.


QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 5 2008, 09:27 AM) *
400 points but how much in %age it will be brother.

regards


Shakaut Aziz turned Pakistan's economy around, it turned it back from the brink of bankruptcy. As a financial genius he would more likely be write a book on how to enhance you IQ rather than read it.

'khawarkhan' lets look at the &age as you say.

KSE 100 Index

Nov 1991 - 1000 (start of index)

Nov 1995 - 1,369.51
Nov 1996 - 1,491.73
Nov 1997 - 1,722.24
Nov 1998 - 1,051.00
Nov 1999 - 1,247.40
Nov 2000 - 1,276.05
Nov 2001 - 1,358.16
Nov 2002 - 2,285.87
Nov 2003 - 4,068.29
Nov 2004 - 5,567.84
Nov 2005 - 9,026.59
Nov 2006 - 10,618.75
Nov 2007 - 14319.42 (close on October 31, 2007)

BB/NS period
1000 to 1,247.4 (+24.7%)

Musharraf period
1247.4 to 14319.42 (+1048%)

http://www.kse.com.pk/ (see about KSE)
http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/sbp_index.xls

Market Capitilisation

(Rs. in million)

1990 - 61,750.0

Nov 1995 - 289,677
Nov 1996 - 457,676
Nov 1997 - 494,585
Nov 1998 - 294,382
Nov 1999 - 328,433
Nov 2000 - 353,560
Nov 2001 - 326,166
Nov 2002 - 513,605
Nov 2003 - 837,226
Nov 2004 - 1,524,215
Nov 2005 - 2,557,240
Nov 2006 - 2,983,767
Nov 2007 - 4,364,313 (US $ 71.900 billion)(close on October 31, 2007)

BB/NS period
61,750.0 to 328,433 (+431.8%)

Musharraf period
328,433 to 4,364,313 (+1228.8%)

http://www.kse.com.pk/ (see about KSE)
http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/sbp_index.xls
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 6 2008, 02:21 AM) *
Shakaut Aziz turned Pakistan's economy around, it turned it back from the brink of bankruptcy. As a financial genius he would more likely be write a book on how to enhance you IQ rather than read it.

'khawarkhan' lets look at the &age as you say.

KSE 100 Index

Nov 1991 - 1000 (start of index)

Nov 1995 - 1,369.51
Nov 1996 - 1,491.73
Nov 1997 - 1,722.24
Nov 1998 - 1,051.00
Nov 1999 - 1,247.40
Nov 2000 - 1,276.05
Nov 2001 - 1,358.16
Nov 2002 - 2,285.87
Nov 2003 - 4,068.29
Nov 2004 - 5,567.84
Nov 2005 - 9,026.59
Nov 2006 - 10,618.75
Nov 2007 - 14319.42 (close on October 31, 2007)

BB/NS period
1000 to 1,247.4 (+24.7%)

Musharraf period
1247.4 to 14319.42 (+1048%)

http://www.kse.com.pk/ (see about KSE)
http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/sbp_index.xls

Market Capitilisation

(Rs. in million)

1990 - 61,750.0

Nov 1995 - 289,677
Nov 1996 - 457,676
Nov 1997 - 494,585
Nov 1998 - 294,382
Nov 1999 - 328,433
Nov 2000 - 353,560
Nov 2001 - 326,166
Nov 2002 - 513,605
Nov 2003 - 837,226
Nov 2004 - 1,524,215
Nov 2005 - 2,557,240
Nov 2006 - 2,983,767
Nov 2007 - 4,364,313 (US $ 71.900 billion)(close on October 31, 2007)

BB/NS period
61,750.0 to 328,433 (+431.8%)

Musharraf period
328,433 to 4,364,313 (+1228.8%)

http://www.kse.com.pk/ (see about KSE)
http://www.sbp.org.pk/ecodata/sbp_index.xls




i told you that you are over reacting, IE gave me answer 3% to 5% which is normal, and i never denied about the progress about KSE. so these comparsion are useless. and i never said that KSE was better in 90s no way so please dont try to twist thread.


i asked about your estimate statement: my question was :

will ask you to buy a HOW TO ENHANCE IQ book for you and dictionary to SA also if these were estimates than why he exported wheat approx 0.6MT, i dont know means how one day he announces and within one week he exported, itnee jalde kia thee.
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 6 2008, 02:41 AM) *
will ask you to buy a HOW TO ENHANCE IQ book for you and dictionary to SA also if these were estimates than why he exported wheat approx 0.6MT, i dont know means how one day he announces and within one week he exported, itnee jalde kia thee.


khawarkhan all economic decision have to be based on ESTIMATES of the current information. Let me give you a example.

If the government ESTIMATE that tax revenue is going to be RS 750 billion, they might PLAN to spend RS 750 billion on government expenditure.
However tax revenue might eventually turn out to be RS 700 billion, does this mean the government should have waited a year before deciding what government expenditure should have been. No it does not, all decision have to be based upon the best current available data.

So when the intial ESTIMATE of wheat production level came, there appeared to be sufficent wheat, for it to be exported, then when UPDATED figure for wheat production arrived and the price of wheat increased on the global market, the export of wheat was STOPPED. All these decision are based upon the best current information.

khawarkhan even with you 'master in economics and management' I don't think you have invented a time machine which allows us to make decisions based upon what you know for certaint will happen in the future. The best we can do is make rough predictions based upon CURRENT information.
khawarkhan
QUOTE(smegster @ May 6 2008, 03:45 AM) *
khawarkhan all economic decision have to be based on ESTIMATES of the current information. Let me give you a example.

If the government ESTIMATE that tax revenue is going to be RS 750 billion, they might PLAN to spend RS 750 billion on government expenditure.
However tax revenue might eventually turn out to be RS 700 billion, does this mean the government should have waited a year before deciding what government expenditure should have been. No it does not, all decision have to be based upon the best current available data.

So when the intial ESTIMATE of wheat production level came, there appeared to be sufficent wheat, for it to be exported, then when UPDATED figure for wheat production arrived and the price of wheat increased on the global market, the export of wheat was STOPPED. All these decision are based upon the best current information.

khawarkhan even with you 'master in economics and management' I don't think you have invented a time machine which allows us to make decisions based upon what you know for certaint will happen in the future. The best we can do is make rough predictions based upon CURRENT information.



yes bro you are 100% right no argue about that but we had wheat in our hand not estimate like 3 months back or prior to cultivation season, if you search for what happend in cabinate meating you will find this on record that babar ghauri of MQM objected to this export deal just because wheat figure were wrong. if babar ghauri can have actual info how come SA cant. so my only objection was how come he did that????????

regards
smegster
QUOTE(khawarkhan @ May 6 2008, 04:24 AM) *
yes bro you are 100% right no argue about that but we had wheat in our hand not estimate like 3 months back or prior to cultivation season, if you search for what happend in cabinate meating you will find this on record that babar ghauri of MQM objected to this export deal just because wheat figure were wrong. if babar ghauri can have actual info how come SA cant. so my only objection was how come he did that????????

regards


khawarkhan please show us the evidence of the records of these cabinet meetings (from reliable sources not you usual gutter trash)

Is this another example of a leak from a 'retired government official' who isn't able to count.

khawarkhan shall I show you newspaper paper article showing that Osama bin Laden is hiding in Quetta, Azad Kashmir, in Fata maybe you can forward them all on to the FBI to collect the $50m rewards because they might be silly enough to believe everything that is written in a newpaper just like you.
khawarkhan
soryyyyyyyyyyyyy
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