Pakistani Defence Forum > Hurkus Trainer From Turkey

Mark Sien

May 13 2008, 04:23 PM

The Hurkus is a new basic prop trainer under development in Turkey, set to fly sometime in 2009 and enter service around 2011. It appears to be an interesting concept for a basic trainer; it has a glass cockpit, tandem seating and overall simulates fighter-jet situations fairly well.

Some very good information on this site, but notably this:

QUOTE

HURKUS is going to have night and day mission capability, tandem seating and a single turboprop engine. With this aircraft, general purpose, instrument flight, navigation and formation training phases will be realized. In order to realize these training stages; the aircraft will have the standard aircraft systems, cabin pressurization, escape system and oxygen system

http://www.tai.com.tr/en_haber_basin2.aspx?node=&id=57

Pictures:
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/data/36...ages/HURKUS.jpg
http://www.tuncay-deniz.com/TAI_Hurkus_a.jpg

Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRHdzMQPTPc...feature=related

I think this would be a good addition or replacement to the Mushak in the PAF after 2015 if the JF-17 & FC-20 are successfully inducted.

platinum786

May 13 2008, 04:24 PM

What's wrong with the one we have? Is it inadequete?

Mark Sien

May 13 2008, 04:32 PM

QUOTE(platinum786 @ May 13 2008, 06:24 PM)

What's wrong with the one we have? Is it inadequete?

Not sure...but the PAF of post-2015 would be a very different one of today. Check out the Hurkus video and see how early this aircraft can provide the necessary situational awareness, modern network-centric training and simple cockpit simulation such a trainer could give.

Yahya

May 13 2008, 05:12 PM

i doubt the present trainer will be ditched, we have a reason for utilising simple trainers for initial training, it gives the pilots better understanding of how the plane works..PAF unlike many other airforces (such as USAF in 60s) never stoped concentrating on the actual flying part of training, and emphasis is given getting the pilot to FULLY understand their aircraft to a point where they are taught how difrent parts of the aircraft work....

what i would sugest is to upgrade the t37 or replace it completely...we need aircraft with more advanced avionics for this level of training at the present the T37 doesnt look suited for the post 2015 era...

G-Man

May 13 2008, 09:37 PM

There's no point in upgrading the T37. Turkey is replacing its T37s with the Hurkus (KAI KT-1).

Dizasta

May 14 2008, 02:14 AM

Well the Hurkus, Texans, Tucanos and Pilatus are the same aircraft design. In my opinion, the current combo b/w Super Mushaqs and the Tweets is the side by side seating for the instructor and the trainee pilot. This arrangement has always been favored by PAF, however, such sort of trainers are no longer available in the market. Tandom seaters are the way to go nowadays and with that the combination is Super Mushaqs and Karakorams.

If the idea is to upgrade our trainers or change them entirely, then I would prefer if PAF would go for a combo which involves ToT for their trainer fleet. Hurkus, Karakorams and the Chinese L-15s would be a good combo.

airomerix

May 14 2008, 09:53 AM

It looks like a redesigned P-51 Mustang, bt the way its a good replacment for T-37s.

Mark Sien

May 14 2008, 11:48 AM

QUOTE(Dizasta @ May 14 2008, 04:14 AM)

Well the Hurkus, Texans, Tucanos and Pilatus are the same aircraft design. In my opinion, the current combo b/w Super Mushaqs and the Tweets is the side by side seating for the instructor and the trainee pilot. This arrangement has always been favored by PAF, however, such sort of trainers are no longer available in the market. Tandom seaters are the way to go nowadays and with that the combination is Super Mushaqs and Karakorams.

If the idea is to upgrade our trainers or change them entirely, then I would prefer if PAF would go for a combo which involves ToT for their trainer fleet. Hurkus, Karakorams and the Chinese L-15s would be a good combo.

The T-37s and K-8s are both in service, I wonder if pilots fly both aircraft? Nonetheless...I wouldn't mind using the Hurkus, K-8 and L-15 combination as well.

gcobra

May 14 2008, 03:39 PM

visionary

May 16 2008, 04:21 AM

The current mushak system workin in the PAF is adequate. Infact its the best because of the side by side seating. cost effective and simple. not complex for cadets who are learning to fly. yes the k8 is a good advancement for them.

tank131

May 16 2008, 01:49 PM

QUOTE

It looks like a redesigned P-51 Mustang, bt the way its a good replacment for T-37s.

The T-37 is a jet trainer. I dont think you can replace it with a turboprop.

shahid_2dk

May 16 2008, 02:33 PM

QUOTE(tank131 @ May 16 2008, 01:49 PM)

The T-37 is a jet trainer. I dont think you can replace it with a turboprop.

I believe you can.

There is a Canadian professional fighterpilot school which trains students on Pilatus (hurkus type) and Hawks, no T-37 type.
Other AFs do that aswell, turboprobs are pretty good to, turboprop infact is a jet just driving a shaft instead of blasting jetstreams.
And its probably much cheaper to operate too.
And definately better platform than the good but ancient T-37s
Tamdem seat is IMO a better learning platform, but thats just my personal opinion

Mark Sien

May 16 2008, 02:36 PM

I think PAF may not even need L-15 if it inducts the Hurkus and modifies the K-8 for all jet training...while using twin-seat JF-17 for LIFT?

At the end of the day most future pilots will fly JF-17 before anything else. In terms of cost, the JF-17 is roughly the same if not cheaper than most of the new generation LIFT such as T-50 and MEKO. I think the Hurkus could take over as the basic & intermediate flight trainer while the K-8 would be redirected as a jet trainer.

airomerix

May 17 2008, 07:20 AM

Hurkus is a Prop trainer, there is no question of replacing a JET TRAINER with a PROP one.

K-8 can be replaced with T-50s or L-15s. but hurkus is entirely a different trainer.
The jet trainer are used to train pilots on high speeds and at high altitudes where as the props are used to let pilots experience ger air borne in the air.

Mark Sien

May 17 2008, 12:20 PM

QUOTE(airomerix @ May 17 2008, 09:20 AM)

Hurkus is a Prop trainer, there is no question of replacing a JET TRAINER with a PROP one.

K-8 can be replaced with T-50s or L-15s. but hurkus is entirely a different trainer.
The jet trainer are used to train pilots on high speeds and at high altitudes where as the props are used to let pilots experience ger air borne in the air.

U.S is replacing T-37 with the T-6 Texan II.

http://www.aetc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123092492

http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8097755

It might explain why PAF hasn't - at least publically - decided to fully replace T-37 with K-8 yet. It appears the Hurkus can definitely get the job done while the K-8s can potentially be upgraded for jet conversion & advanced training...while JF-17 for LIFT.

airomerix

May 17 2008, 01:03 PM

QUOTE(Mark Sien @ May 17 2008, 11:20 PM)

U.S is replacing T-37 with the T-6 Texan II.

http://www.aetc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123092492

http://www.kswo.com/Global/story.asp?S=8097755

It might explain why PAF hasn't - at least publically - decided to fully replace T-37 with K-8 yet. It appears the Hurkus can definitely get the job done while the K-8s can potentially be upgraded for jet conversion & advanced training...while JF-17 for LIFT.

Hmmm thats a surprise for me. Then what are we waiting for?
by the way what about the deal of A-37s?
Is it done yet?

Mark Sien

May 17 2008, 01:27 PM

QUOTE(airomerix @ May 17 2008, 03:03 PM)

Hmmm thats a surprise for me. Then what are we waiting for?
by the way what about the deal of A-37s?
Is it done yet?

Well Hurkus isn't set for service until 2011...sounds like we could replace T-37 pretty easily once Hurkus is around.

visioninthedark

May 17 2008, 02:14 PM

As an aside ... just to point out ....

In Turkish it is .... Hürkuş .... which in English should be written as HURKUSH .... since that is how it is pronounced in Turkish ....

Mark Sien

May 17 2008, 02:32 PM

QUOTE(visioninthedark @ May 17 2008, 04:14 PM)

As an aside ... just to point out ....

In Turkish it is .... Hürkuş .... which in English should be written as HURKUSH .... since that is how it is pronounced in Turkish ....

How do you get the Turkish script on your keyboard.

G-Man

May 17 2008, 07:41 PM

Turkey is also modernizing its T-38 .

QUOTE

Notes
The T-38 Modernization program covers the avionics modernization of a total of 69 T-38A aircraft that are in the inventory of the Turkish Air Force Command. Under the program, an indigenous mission computer will be developed and OFP will be prepared. MFD, HUD, UFCP, CADC, Intercom, EIDS, Digital Video Data Recorder, DTS, EHSI, CTVS, VOR/ILS will be installed on the aircraft.
These modifications will not only make the aircraft comply with the training concept, but also enable them to have systems that can be supported for a long time.

Technical Specifications
The Avionics Modernization of 55 ea. T-38 jet trainers that are in the inventory of the Turkish Air Force Command are being performed under the Prime Contractorship of TAI. Indegenous and national system solution is targetted in the program where an indigenous mission computer and operational flight program are being developed and installed on the aircraft.
These modifications will not only make the aircraft comply with the training concept, but also enable them to have systems that can be supported for a long time.

http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/data/36.../uruning12.html

visionary

May 18 2008, 12:54 AM

if we are at it why the hell cant we just buy the BAE Hawks. the DAM indians have done so why cant we. we are reinstated back into the commonwealth. in the good books now. cash while the iron is hot!

airomerix

May 19 2008, 07:26 AM

QUOTE(visionary @ May 18 2008, 11:54 AM)

if we are at it why the hell cant we just buy the BAE Hawks. the DAM indians have done so why cant we. we are reinstated back into the commonwealth. in the good books now. cash while the iron is hot!

We still have lot of payments to clear. WE cannot just keep on taking loans and loans. Where as india has billions in its pockets. We have to jump according to the size of our panties.=P

visionary

May 20 2008, 08:52 AM

but still airo we need to think big... our generals need to realize the prospect of airpower if and when the time comes its only air force that can withstand the indian brunt....

Mark Sien

May 20 2008, 11:55 AM

QUOTE(visionary @ May 20 2008, 10:52 AM)

but still airo we need to think big... our generals need to realize the prospect of airpower if and when the time comes its only air force that can withstand the indian brunt....

If PAF is to procure a lead in fighter trainer, it will probably go for the Chinese L-15.

http://www.sinodefence.com/airforce/trainer/l15.asp

Yahya

Jun 28 2008, 06:32 AM

QUOTE(G-Man @ May 14 2008, 04:37 AM)

There's no point in upgrading the T37. Turkey is replacing its T37s with the Hurkus (KAI KT-1).

sorry yaar i missed something in my post...i meant we need a jet trainer...prop flying is completely difrent...as 1 the power is in the front, 2 the faster you go the les power you have...L15 looks kool

Yahya

Jun 28 2008, 06:34 AM

QUOTE(Mark Sien @ May 14 2008, 06:48 PM)

The T-37s and K-8s are both in service, I wonder if pilots fly both aircraft? Nonetheless...I wouldn't mind using the Hurkus, K-8 and L-15 combination as well.

they use the two difrent aircrafts in difrent stages of their training.