Boeing identifies 14 nations for P-8A exports

Boeing sees an export market for "about 100 P-8 derivatives" with countries that operate the Lockheed P-3 Orion or similar aircraft and are "looking for a long-range maritime patrol, maybe multi-mission, intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance-capable platform," says Egan Greenstein, the company's senior manager P-8A business development.

"Some we're talking to directly, some we're talking to in support of the US Navy's foreign military sales, but there are about 14 countries that are interested or have a current capability that they need to replace in the next 10 years," he says. The target nations are Argentina, Australia, Canada, Chile, Greece, India, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Portugal, South Korea, Spain and Thailand.

Boeing is negotiating a direct commercial sale of eight P-8As to India to meet its requirement for an interim long-range maritime reconnaisance and anti-submarine warfare aircraft.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/...8a-exports.html
=======================================

Not much, but goes to show what I've been saying earlier...even Boeing thinks that PN is poised to begin replacing P-3 from ~2019.

Sorry but no american stuff from now on.

P-8 is a heavy aircraft and as far as I can understand, we shouldn't be looking into American stuff to buy. Rather, we should be looking into the Brazilian P-99 maritime armed-reconnaissance aircraft. They are small, agile, have less dependencies on Americans and have the capability to do the job.

Thank you very much but the price for the last equipment we ordered 5 years is too hard to digest (importation of NS & Zardari) ... If the price is for present than .. we will get sanctions for future dealings with USA !

Keep your equipment .. we had enough of the US.

We do need equiptment thats for sure but its suppose to be non american and it shouldnt be using anything american in it not even the paint.Point is Europion will have to do may they be ships or fighter jets or somthing else hell even Russian would do but we cant be dependent on China for everything that it self wont be a wise idea.

No thanks keep P8 we dont need US made weapons.

Send back those F16s then

P8
Empty weight: 138,300 lb (62,730 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 188,200 lb (85,370 kg)

As compared to:

P3C
Empty weight: 77,200 lb (35,000 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 142,000 lb (64,400 kg)

Nimrod
Empty weight: 86,000 lb (39,009 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 192,000 lb (87,090 kg)

Empty Weights
737-100: 61,864 lb (28,120 kg)
737-400: 73,040 lb (33,200 kg)
737-500: 68,860 lb (31,300 kg)
737-600: 80,031 lb (36,378 kg)
737-700/737-700ER: 84,100 lb (38,147 kg)
737-800: 91,108 lb (41,413 kg)
737-900ER: 98,495 lb (44,676 kg)

Maximum take-off weights
737-100: 108,218 lb (49,190 kg)
737-400: 149,710 lb (68,050 kg)
737-500: 133,210 lb (60,550 kg)
737-600: 145,500 lb (66,000 kg)
737-700/737-700ER: 154,500 lb (70,080 kg) / 171,000 lb (77,565 kg)
737-800: 174,200 lb (79,010 kg)
737-900ER: 187,700 lb (85,130 kg)

737 AEW&C
Empty weight: 102,750 lb (46,606 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 171,000 lb (77,564 kg)

The difference with other 737s and Wedgetail AEW&C variant almost makes me doubt the weights quoted for the P-8.....

Maybe there is a difference in airframe material or a different engine. Otherwise I seriously doubt those figures, or it could be that at empty weight, all sensors on board are included in the empty weight. None the less, the aircraft is a heavy one and comparitively is matched by an even maritime armed-recce aircraft, the Embraer P-99 and is smaller, more agile and easier to maintain and is sanction free.

P-8 is derived from 737-800ERX. Empty weight for that is 41,413 kg and max. t/o gross weight 79,010 kg. Maximum Takeoff Gross Weight for P-8 (according to Boeing, whose brochure does not list an empty weight!) is 85,139 kilograms (much the same as a 737-900ER). That's 6 tons more than that of the 737-800 and about 1.5 tons more than the Wedgetail AEW&C variant. Yet the empty weight of the P-8 is supposed to be 62,730 kg, which is over 20 tons more than the empty weight of the 737-800 and some 16 tons more than that of the Wedgetail (which isn't exactly devoid of equipment either). By comparison, the commonly employed Oto Melara 76mm Compact Super Rapid naval gunmount including ammunition and off-mount components weighs 8,5 tons.


Either it carries "a whole lot" more gear than Wedgetail or perhaps someone has mistakenly put max landing weight in place of empty weight.... (66,361 kg for the 737-800/900ER)

Wedgetail:
max t/o weight = 77,564 kg
empty weight = 46,606 kg
> Difference: 30,958 kg
Listed as 'payload' = 19,830 kg
> Remainder: 11,128 kg
(Websters defines 'payload' as: "the load carried by a vehicle exclusive of what is necessary for its operation")

Translated to P-8 that would imply:
max t/o weight: 85,370 kg
est. empty weight: 51,296 kg
> est. Difference: 34,047 kg
> est. Payload: 21,809 kg
> est. Remainder: 12,238 kg.
(note that max t/o weight minus est. payload equals 63,561 kg, which closely aproximates the weight that was given as empty weight of 62,730 kg)

EDIT: I think I found the origin of that so-called empty weight here. However, note that it says "Max Zero Fuel Weight: 138,300 pounds" and NOT empty weight. Clearly, max weight without fuel is not the same as empty weight as it would include for example weapons payload).

You know, If i was in charge, I'd demand a refund.

Secondly, we already have them, so why send them back, we just don't want to deal with those snkaes anymore.

Whats gets your knickers in a twist? everytime India in insulted you hurt, Now America is insulted you hurt...

You guys need to wake up...even some major Chinese platforms are using North American technology - i.e. ARJ-21 & WZ-10 - and this applies to the Brazilian and European systems as well. IMO the commercial world is increasingly distancing itself from politics, and sanctioning countries that become integral to the global trade 'network' isn't going to work...you think screwing off Saudi Arabia is a smart idea? With the way food and energy prices are going, I think it is absolutely disgraceful that Pakistan as a state has not entrenched itself in global trade as well as it could have with its extensive agriculture, energy deposits, huge domestic market, etc.

If in the next 10-12 years Pakistan at least sets itself "en route" to a strong future position - similar to China in the 1990s - then it would not have to think about the 'normal' issues in seeking European or American weaponry.

Maybe, just maybe, the knickers getting twisted have little to do with a specific country but rather with the type of remark being made.... Mark's made a good point in this respect in his last post.

Or maybe you are simply suffering trying to understand the Pakistani psyche. We are an independent, proud people. We have been cursed by god with incompetent spineless leaders. Rather than recognise that and repent, we currently whine about the worlds ills and regret opertunity after opertunity that is not granted to us by god as we neither make the physical effort to grasp it, nor the spiritual effort to please our lord so that he guides us to become good enough to grasp them.

At this point I am going to leave the spirituality behind and just talk to you from a worldly point of view.

When we reject American weapons and American influence, we don't think of the P-8 to be inferior, nor nessacerily the Brazillian plane to be any better, rather before we even get into the statistics of things, we want to be rid of the influence of a nation who is hell bent on destroying us. Sadlythat is not reflected in our leadership.

So don't bother telling me about the pro's of the P-8... I'm aware of them, I'm aware of the status that American technology holds in the military market, i'd rather we were without that with technology from the US. We'd like to avoid them as much as possible, to cut contact as much as possible as they are bullies, and recognised as such by our people but not our leaders.

So don't get your knickers in a twist without understanding why we say what we say. It's very logical for a dutch person to suggest getting US technology, the US isn't holding your country at gunpoint.

Really? Or would we suggest European technology? And as for gunpoint, do you recall the American Servicemembers Protection Act? This in the context of a partnership which is one of its oldest continuous relationships of the US and dates back to the American Revolution. Some here are very ready to claim all the countries in the west are US pawns yet now all of a sudden the Dutch are not?

Really? Or would we suggest European technology? And as for gunpoint, do you recall the American Servicemembers Protection Act? This in the context of a partnership which is one of its oldest continuous relationships of the US and dates back to the American Revolution. Some here are very ready to claim all the countries in the west are US pawns yet now all of a sudden the Dutch are not?

A single line about F16s is enough to trigger a bunch of non-humorous reactions. So who'se getting their nickers twisted?

platinum,

We have to admit that in the U.S.-Pakistan mess, Pakistan screwed itself quite a bit...actually a lot.

Recall the U.S. 'embargo' of the 1970s...even when it was trying to get Z.A. Bhutto, it continued to offer weapon systems such as F-5E/F to replace the F-86s; the A-7 Corsair II; and unlike today it did not impede on our nuclear relations with France. In fact the U.S. only stopped France from any nuclear dealing with Pakistan in the late-1980s & early-1990s...surprise surprise. Fact is the Pakistan of the 1960s and 1970s was economically very strong and was positioning itself as a major regional player...we built ships for others; we had a large petrochemical industry; we had agriculture and even helped India & Bangladesh through their droughts. Our political clout was such that we hosted one of the first formal U.S.-China talks; were influential with the Arabs and in close link with the Asian Tiger South Korea & GCC powerhouse UAE.

After all this we failed to properly capitalize on our initial progress...and today the U.S. is bullying us. However when even some Chinese technology that could potentially come in use for military purposes such as AEW&C & MPAs use British & American technology...you know something is wrong. It is not an international conspiracy, but rather our inability to cope with the times. Today Pakistan has the raw ingredients to become an export oriented manufacturer of low-cost goods such as automobile vehicles, consumer electronics, leisure goods, etc. Afterall we have the domestic market...those huge cell phone & TV imports is raising our trade deficit...so why is it that we haven't gone through a South Korea or China type shift in producing those goods locally? Hell we're even beginning to import our food!! What's going on bro?

If anything...Pakistan should have been the South Korea of the Muslim World...it had the same basic ingredients; huge agriculture; strong domestic market; comparatively strong manufacturing; talent pool; strategic location; political proximity to Global Powers, etc.

We have screwed up, and are now paying for it...

Its about time they offer it to the Pakistan navy after marketing it to the Indians strongly over a year ago.
I agree with many of you, dependency on the US needs to be reduced.
The Indians might buy it as they are in negotiations now and we need to reduce dependence on the US, so at the moment i would not look into purchasing the P8. I don't think the PN will look into it as a future acquisition either until India's negotiations for it are scuppered at least.

wrt American foreign policy, I'm glad that Malaysia is moving away from American arms (F-18's) to others (SU30MKM's).

It's not. Malaysia has purchased from both US and Russia:
F-5E/F 1975-79 (US)
Hawk 108/208 1994 (UK)
Mig-29UB/UBN 1995 (Russia)
F/A-18D 1997 (US)
Su-30MKM 2007 (Russia)
But for some Mi17 helicopter ordered from Russia in 2006, virtually all other Malay aircraft are either US or European in origin.
http://xairforces.com/airforces.asp?id=49
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Malaysi...e#Modernization

Malay navy and army most certainly not moving toward Russian equipment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysian_Arm...ent_Development
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Malaysi...#Current_Assets

WRT to the article in the first post, Boeing would sell to whoever's ready to buy it, but the decision to sell has to come from the US government and has to be ratified by the US Congress, before any sale can actually take place.

Penguin,

I didn't deny Malaysia has American weapons. What I'm saying is that, there is an effort to move away from American weapons to others, partly due to U.S foreign policy(who can blame us) and partly because Singapore is a better ally of U.S than Malaysia.

Come on now Penguin, I said moving away from U.S weapons not moving towards Russian equipment. i.e:- Scorpenes(France), Lekiu Class Frigate (U.K), Patrol Vessels(Germany Blohm + Voss MEKO 100 based) etc. Btw it's not 'the Malay navy' but 'the Malaysian navy' - for us, the difference between the terms are significant.

There wasn't a dependence on US arms to begin with, AFAIK.

As for Malay/Malaysian, isn't it e.g. 'the Malay language' and 'the Malays' (when referring to the people)? Hence, my use of the term 'Malay navy'. But no more of that from now on ;-) Apologies if I offended anyone (just a silly Dutchman).

penguin,

Malays make up about 55% of the population. Malay is also the language but collectively we are called Malaysians. Plus Malay/Malaya has a colonial ring to it.

I got that after some googling already.