Breaking news on ARY, PAF launches strafing and bombing attacks on millitants in Bajur agency, some reports say over 60 millitants killed, fierce clashes continuing with more bombing sorties being flown!

Excellent! This is exactly what we need, bring in the airforce, the regular army and the SSG.

We can take these guys out within 2-3 months of successive warfare!

yes that is what I say our Troops need the Help of PAF pakistan should send their J-6 from Quetta also and his A-5 Fleet great news !

The J-6 has been replaced by the F-7PG, I assume these are being launched into action!

Not by the PAF! The attacks were conducted by AH-1 Cobra Gunships as told by the Geo News. They also showed Cobras patrolling the agency.

Its better to use AH-1s then the F-6s. F-6s are fast and only capable of dropping free fall bombs which may destroy the surroundings and kill other civilians in the range. Where as if carpet bombing has to be done,then couple of F-16s can drop LGBs or A-5s can do the job on the same footing. It is a terrible idea to use F-6s actually.

Ok Than A-5 and Cobras !

PAF should get information from UAV's patrolling the area and then conduct strikes with F-16/Mirage-3 for precision strike on militant bases.Use Cobras for mobile targets and CAS for attacking troops.Every attack should be opened with artillery bombardment and strike from PAF's aircraft,then cobras and regular troops whould move in for the kill.

Gunship helicopters along with armed Bell-412s have always participated in the assaults, be it in FATA, Swat or elsewhere but today it was specifically stated by the ARY network that fighter aircraft have bombed millitant strongholds.
The area shown was mountain ridges and hill top hideouts thus no civilians up there hence no chance of collateral damage!
Why is F-6 repeatedly mentioned, wasn't this aircraft retired back in 2002 ?????

but you see problem there would be, that we would loose some of our edge. a fresh blade is a fresh blade (i mean in terms of logistics not in terms of fighting capability)...leaving us open for attack from either east or west (afghanistan)

Ok we assume there were no civilians. But carpet bombing will burn the whole forest as well as it will kill all the wild life there. Waziristan is famous for its cheetahs.lol

Yup the F-6 was retired but since it is AlKhalid-19s favourite aircraft thats y i was explaining its disadvantage.

hahah lol

Typical Pakistan gets it wrong again. They are bombing on the wrong side of the border! The tortuers , rapists, murderers are on the other side.

Unfortunately the war has already spread through out Pakistan in the form of suicide bomb blasts.How will that be curbed.Insurgents like these cannot be taken out completely.they keep getting allies within the country in the form of other wings like BLA etc and external allies like RAW etc.This misunderstanding of Pakistan's role in war on terror,Jihad,Musharraf's priorities w.r.t USA,Talibanization etc have to be clarified to the people in the affected areas.A military solution is not a permanent solution unfoftunately.The minds of people's have been brainwashed and these need to be restored again.A military action will also put hatred in minds of people against defense forces,which is already building up due to minor reasons also like roads are blocked at office times/after office time for generals to pass through from GHQ to residential areas,the checking of cars/persons at various checkpoints have increased alot and its very very rare that the culprits are apprehended this way,entering.exiting military residential areas to meet someone seems like a burden now etc.The army has confined itself for its protection so much that street against the armed force has risen recently.

Actually it tells us that now situation is more complicated that can taken care with Army Aviation alone. Stupid and cowered Mush has bring Pakistan on brink of destruction. He never took any kind of stand for Pakistani people in front of US/NATO and same things are happening in democrazy govt.

We are really pissed off man.

Where on earth do our strategists get trained? They are all screwed up , they don't know the difference between friend and foe and just follow the dollar. We are systematically being polarised and divided and we are stupidly falling into the trap. Just remember Iraq and how friendly the neocons were to the Sadam and his cronies.

The reality on the ground is some what different than meets the eye, for the same effort one could question the motives and agenda of these disillusioned scumbags who are hell bent on destroying countries education insitutions, utility facilities and transport network , with their mindless actions, who suffers the worst, the high genetry or the common man?

They cannot be taken out completely, but thier nest of operations can be wiped out and through proper intelligence thier chiefs can be taken out making them toothless in the short and medium term. In that time we need to brainwash our population in a positive manner away from accepting these people and thier criminal behaviour as a legitimate form of protest and also to attack and cut up the foreign backers of them thru proxies.

Firstly we must take out thier first line of fire, thier fighters, weapons, bases of operation, once thier infrastrucutre is wiped out it reduces thier ability to further expand thier operations as they have to re-build, and by positive occupation we can prevent them from doing that.

If you can take out the top leaders such as Mehsud, Meengal, Fazullah and thier luitenants, you blind the serpant, these terror netowkrs do not have ready made leaders. Also you need to focus on taking out bomb makers and financers, even if it is unoffically with shots in dark alley ways, whatever it takes, training up and replacing the real deal will take time and effort. Furthermore if you can take out the tribal leaders who back them and support other tribes in taking thier territory, thier inexperienced replacements will soon bow to demands as long as thier territory is not gobbled up. This stage of the operation requires intel, intel and more intel.

The other stage alongside all this re-programming our awam, that requires using the media to brainwash people. We need an ISI media wing, to co-erce media people into running what they are told, not what they want. If that means media moguls having car accidents and being unfortunately killed in robberies during a "midnight stroll" so be it.

This is exactly what US needs, when he says "Do more".
i gues we will finally drop a nuke on fata in few years.
we r only increasing number of militants while being used as a tool to grow this bloody spiral.
War is too serious a business to be left to the Generals

War is too serious a business to be left to the Generals

The people who know about war and are trained to conduct war, they are incapable of dealing with war?

Who would you suggest deal with it?

- Parliament? A bunch of crooks who's only decsions are made upon popularity polls.
- Judges/Lawyers? Parasites who can be bought and sold by the common criminal, let alone foreeign states.
- The Public; unwashed, uneducated masses who are too concerned with thier day to day living (fightly so as wel) rather than strategic benefits and gains.

Not to mention that none of them have any MILITARY experience and that WAR is a MILITARY affair.

I seriously don't understand you people. Tell me what is thier to gain by protecting and harbouring terrorist elements who are destroying our state and fighting us?

Will you defend Indians in a war against India? In 1971 would you have defended Bengali traitors? Do you support Akbar Bugti and the BLA?

Why do you defend the enemies of our state, simply because they originate from our state? Do you defend other criminals? Rapists, drug dealers, robbers, murderers? Why is this special treatment only for terrorists?

platinum786,


That's a famous quote by Clemenceau.

Who? ....

... I looked him up on Wikipedia, the quote still seems stupid to me.

This is a war we cant win. We are just lossing our fine soldiers.

What a silly and defeatist attitude.

If you want another Afghanistan with people forcing you to keep a beard and beating up your sisters and mothers for wearing the burqa one inch higher then so be it and don't do anything. The rest of us need to take the trash out. These shaheeds are doing Allah's work by cleaning out the enemies of Islam.

Pakistan seeks peace, BUT NOT PEACE AT ANY PRICE alas some sacrifices have to be made !!!!

military machines are very high-maintenance, i am wondering if the Cobras can take all this work, they have been involved in every major campaign in FATA and Swat, even in Hangu and Khyber agency.

Clemenceau was the President of France during the first world war brother platinum

If france's defeat twice in WW1 and WW2 was after reading those words then i think words like these should not be used again.

Even the BBC is now reporting as Pakistan Air Force pulverising millitant strong holds, the ISPR should release some footage of these attacks to send a clear message to any would be aggressor!!!

Oh give us a break with your secular crap about "evil taliban" - those ragheads brought some peace and security to that god forsaken place at least, what has Northern Alliance rats done?

Anyway this whole situation is a disaster, Aziqbal is right, we are killing and bombing each other in Pakistan - heck, we cant even agree on this forum!

But at end of the day, killing our citizens is serving America's and India's interests, and Pakistan Jawans did not sign up in Army and Airforce to kill their own bloody countrymen!!

Aoa






I don't think the person who said it meant that the militaristic side of warfare should be not be left to generals - rather (in my view) he meant that the total affair of war; when to use force, when to resort to other means like negotiations etc, should be left to others (or exculsively to them). Since war is, in the words of Clawzwitz 'Politics by other means', it should be treated as such and not a conflict that can only be resolved by the destruction of one of the beligerants or rather when only one remains. So you leave the decisions about which strategy to employ when invading and attacking the enemy, which weaponry etc to use but the broader of war is another matter.

doesn't mean you don't consult them - just you don't leave the entire matter to them - it is too serious a business.

w/salaam

Air strikes leave 28 dead in Bajaur




Wednesday, August 13, 2008

By Mushtaq Yusufzai & Hasbanullah Khan

KHAR/PESHAWAR: Fighting between the security forces and the Taliban militants continued for the sixth consecutive day on Tuesday in the Bajaur Agency where 28 more people, including 21 suspected militants, were killed in fresh air strikes by PAF fighter aircraft, Army gunships and artillery shelling.

Official and tribal sources informed The News from the troubled region that clashes between the security forces and the tribal militants continued outside Bajaur’s main town, Khar.

Sources said hundreds of militants, after capturing most parts of the tribal region, were advancing towards Khar, Bajaur’s regional headquarters. However, with the arrival of hundreds of Pakistan Army troops along with heavy weapons, the militants’ designs were thwarted and they were forced to retreat to their strongholds in Inayat Kalley, Mamond and Charmang areas.

Military sources said fighter aircraft and gunships early on Tuesday morning started targeting militants’ suspected hideouts in Koisar, Jar Kalley, Ghani Adda and Palang in Utmankhel Tehsil and Shah Naray, Haji Lawang in Khar and Raghgan in Salarzai sub-division.

Militants’ positions were also targeted by artillery and mortars from the paramilitary Bajaur Scouts headquarters in Khar, they added. The officials said 21 militants were killed and several were injured in the daylong bombing and artillery shelling on their hideouts.

Officials said the militants later took bodies of the slain and injured colleagues to their headquarters in Seway village of Mamond subdivision. “After their funeral prayers offered in Seway, the bodies of the militants were dispatched to their respective villages for burial,” sources close to militants told The News from Seway.

Sources said the militants from other tribal regions, including South Waziristan, Khyber, Mohmand and settled districts of Mardan, Peshawar, Nowshera, Dir and Swabi also reached the area to fight alongside their fellow fighters in the Bajaur Agency against the security forces.

Similarly, seven civilians were killed and 20 injured when a convoy of tribal people came under artillery and mortar fire near Skandro area in Utmankhel Tehsil on Tuesday evening. The tribesmen were fleeing the Bajaur Agency and were on their way to Munda in the neighbouring Dir district.

One of these tribal people, Itbar Gul, son of Lali, who was taking his family to safety from the troubled region, told The News by telephone from Timergara hospital in Lower Dir that 12 people died on the spot while several others suffered serious injuries in the artillery shelling on their convoy.

He said his wife and father were killed while he, his mother and two minor children sustained serious injuries. Sources in Timergara hospital said 20 tribal people, including women and children, were shifted to the hospital where two of them succumbed to their injuries and were laid to rest at the Munda village.

They said most of the injured were in critical condition and had lost legs and arms. Itbar Gul said leaflets in Pashto and Urdu languages were dropped from military choppers in Bajaur, asking people to either expel militants from villages or leave their homes by Tuesday evening, as the security forces would launch a massive bombing on the tribal region.

Meanwhile, TTP spokesman Maulvi Omar claimed responsibility for the attack on the PAF vehicle in Peshawar and termed it the first part of the coming series of attacks on the security forces and government installations.

The TTP spokesman said they had threatened to launch suicide attacks across the country when the government started the operation in Swat, Hangu and Doaba against the militants, but had to delay the activity after an appeal from Ulema and Jirga members who wanted negotiation between the Taliban and the government.

Omar warned the government of more deadly attacks on state installations across the country as mark of their reaction to the military operations against the Taliban in Swat and Bajaur. Meanwhile, at least two seminaries and a mosque were destroyed in the Tuesday’s bombardment by gunship helicopters in volatile Bajaur tribal Agency.

The first seminary came under attack was Madrassa Ishaat-wal-Tauheed Jar in Uthmankhel subdivision. An eyewitness told The News by telephone from the agency that the spacious seminary was completely razed to the ground when a gunship helicopter bombarded it on Tuesday evening.

No casualty was reported in the attack, as no one was present in the Madrassa due to holidays. The classes, scheduled for today (Wednesday), have now been postponed due to the military operation, said Ashrafuddin, the caretaker of the Madrassa. He said no militant activity whatsoever ever took place in the seminary. “This was a seat of learning having nothing to do with militancy,” he claimed.

The other seminary demolished was located near Haji Lawang Bridge in Uthmankhel subdivision where, too, no casualty was reported. There were also reports that a mosque was demolished. These incidents caused resentment among the people, who said innocent people, mosques and seminaries were being targeted in the operation.s

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=16580

Charles De Gaulle was a general and he give France her 5th Constitution, the strogest in her history. Clemenceau was a great leader, in this time French military was fan of bloody wars.

How the hell is it 'secular crap' when I am advocating the pulverization of criminals who are using our religion as a veil to further their own agenda??
The Taliban are the prime example of what happens to Islam when it is in the hands of deprived jahils (as in Afghanistan).

We don't need these jahils in Pakistan we are better off without them and need a progressive and enlightened Islam which increases our education, scientific and militaristic strenght...not bring us down from a nuclear power and make us a bunch of bearded AK-47 and RPG wielding neanderthals.

Well if "deprived jahils" can establish law and order to that godforsaken country, raise the flag of La Ilah ha il Lil Lah, establish a currency, eliminate drugs, rule 95% of the country peacefully for half a decade then they could probably do a better job of running our country better than Zardari will ever do - milking every last penny into his Swiss accounts like his braindead wife.



lol as opposed to what? Clean-shaven homosexuals wielding "Plato- the Republic" and waving the french tri-color?

Anyway all that asidie...Bombing our own citizens has failed as a policy and divided us as a nation. We need to go back to the drawing board.

Sadar
------

Afghan Taliban never declare war against the state of Pakistan. It is Al-CIAeda and Takfeeris who are doing a war against state of Pakistan and its citizen...So we better make differentiation between two. Secondly, these Pakistani Talibans are nothing more than Paid criminals.

Well compared to Asif ghadaari, Taliban can't be that bad.
No seriously as Pak Shaheen pointed out, the Taliban in Pakistan are anti Islam and anti Pakistan. They are no good and need a thorough elimination.


Dude why do you have to go from one extreme to the other ? There is a middle ground which Muslims need to follow. Not a theocratic state where one is forced to grow a beard, raise pants above ankle and use miswak instead of colgate, but a state which is progressive, educated, technically developed and forward thinking. All this while still remaining true to the Islamic spirit and values and respecting everybody's freedoms.


Peace deals didn't work. Have you been sleeping the last 8 years??

What is your suggestion? complaining is easy.

Its interesting nobody has mentioned the bomb attack on PAF Bus right after proudly opeing account.
I am sad for both incidents, but it is sad not everyone arourd thinks it necessary.

Infact instead of just a "mention"of the bus bombing, a few new topics were initiated on this tragedy in different forums, however the PAF remains focused and determined and has killed some millitant commanders today with surgical strikes.!!!

hahhahahahaha
llollllllllllllllllllllll

forGodsake Admin delete this sentence Sharma dia ha chal pappu pehla metric pass kar pir yahan anna
or agar metric pass kia ha tu pehla knowledge gain kar pir behas karna

apka matlap ? plz write in English !

Pakistan Says 460 Militants, 22 Troops Killed in Bajaur

Pakistani officials say security forces have killed at least 460 al-Qaida-linked militants in a tribal region bordering Afghanistan. VOA's Ayaz Gul reports, the week-long clashes also have left 22 troops dead and forced more than 200,000 people to flee to safer areas.

The fighting is taking place in the volatile northwestern Bajaur tribal region, which is regarded as a stronghold for Taliban and al-Qaida militants.

Pakistan army gunship helicopters relentlessly pounded insurgent positions since the clashes broke out in the border region a week ago. In addition to killing hundreds of militants, including senior Taliban commanders, officials say many militants were wounded.

The head of the federal Interior Ministry, Rehman Malik, says that as many as 3,000 armed militants are present in the area.

Mr. Malik told a news conference in Peshawar Friday that the majority of the militants are foreigners, including nationals from Afghanistan, Central Asia and some Arab countries. He says the government will not surrender, and the security operation will continue until these extremists are wiped out.

Pakistani officials say that the fighting has forced tens of thousands of people to leave the area and take refuge in the adjoining NorthWest Frontier Province. Fleeing residents reported heavy bombings in some villages, and officials say most of those left in the battle zone are militants.

The provincial governor, Owais Ahmed Ghani, told the same news conference that the government has set up relief camps for the displaced people, and efforts are being made to avert a possible humanitarian crisis.

The Bajaur tribal region is adjacent to Afghanistan's eastern province of Kunar, where U.S-led coalition forces are fighting al-Qaida and Taliban militants. A spokesman for the coalition forces in Afghanistan told VOA they closely coordinate anti-terror operations with their Pakistani counterparts, but are not involved in the current fighting in Pakistan.

Official: 460 militants, 22 troops die in Pakistan

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan's top civilian security official has vowed to "wipe out" Islamic militants in a volatile tribal region where he says more than 460 insurgents and 22 troops have died in 10 days of fighting.

Interior Ministry chief Rehman Malik says Pakistani intelligence has reports that about 3,000 armed militants are present in the northwestern region of Bajur, which borders Afghanistan. He says they include Pakistanis, Afghan Taliban and Central Asians.

Pakistani army helicopter gunships and jets have been pounding militant positions since the fighting broke out Aug. 6. Malik told a news conference Friday that "We will wipe them out."

Provincial Gov. Owais Ahmed Ghani says about 219,000 residents have been displaced by the fighting.

Pakistan says 460 militants, 22 troops killed in fighting

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AFP) — Pakistan's interior ministry chief said Friday that over 460 Islamic militants and 22 soldiers have been killed in more than a week of fighting in a tribal area bordering Afghanistan.

More than 3,000 armed militants, most of them foreigners, are taking part in the clashes in the troubled Bajaur tribal region, said Rehman Malik, the prime minister's advisor on interior matters.

Pakistan sent security forces backed by helicopter gunships and fighter jets into Bajaur last week amid intense pressure from the United States to curb militants launching attacks in Afghanistan.

"Extremists wanted to establish their hold in Bajaur and the government had to take action," Malik told a news conference in the northwestern city of Peshawar.

"Until today 462 militants have been killed in Bajaur and a similar number have been injured. Twenty-two troops have been killed and some are missing in action," Malik said.

The "major portion" of the militants were foreigners, Malik said, adding that they included "Afghans, Chechens, Yemenis and Afro-Asians."

There has been no independent corroboration of the figures.

Provincial governor Owais Ghani said that around 219,000 people have been displaced from Bajaur, adding that the provincial government had set up nine camps to provide them shelter, food and medicines.

Pakistan's newly elected government has drawn criticism from western allies for earlier negotiations with Taliban militants based near the rugged Afghan frontier.

There has been further alarm abroad over the government's plans to impeach President Pervez Musharraf, a key ally in the US-led "war on terror".

First of all, your entire post should be deleted since it involoves urdu language which is forbidden on this forum for the sake of international users.

Secondly you post seems to be stupid enough to be ignored.

Thanks.

The AH-1 would do the trick, although if you ask me, I think that these tribal regions are too problematic for any country. Pakistan needs to get rid of tribalism just as Turkey & Iran did, & in the process, an end to tribalism will only strengthen national unity. I am not sure that bombing them will do it, it may force them into it, but will be expensive.

^^^^ But the price is too heavy in respect to what one gains from it. The chaos is beyond proportion.
Topgun nice to have u back!!!!

Eliminating the tribal culture is not good. However, Cobras should be used.They are less expensive than an LGB strike or for that matter an air strike(fuel costs e.t.c).

The gunships, are effective in some scenarios, like visible targets but on the mountain ridges with deep caverns, the likes of LGBs is the only really effective weapon!

You need a laser designator or a targeting pod.If the aircraft is very high to minimize the sound then Falco UAV or special forces would be used to paint the target.