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AKM
It is rather strange to encounter so many Chinese forum members' opinions on India & Indians range from total hate to indifference. As an American, I am curious to know why. I googled both nations and came across several research articles including this one, which was quite a revelation. These articles talk about the commonality between the two cutlures andhow much they have borrowed from each other over centuries.

India and China

Some quotes:

QUOTE
The cultural relations between India and China can be traced back to very early times. There are numerous references to China in Sanskrit texts, but their chronology is sketchy. The Mahabharata refers to China several times, including a reference to presents brought by the Chinese at the Rajasuya Yajna of the Pandavas; also, the Arthasastra and the Manusmriti mention China. According to French art historian, Rene Grousset, the name China comes from "an ancient" Sanskrit name for the regions to the east, and not, as often supposed, from the name of the state of Ch'in," the first dynasty established by Shih Huang Ti in 221 B.C. The Sanskrit name Cina for China could have been derived from the small state of that name in Chan-si in the northwest of China, which flourished in the fourth century B.C. Scholars have pointed out that the Chinese word for lion, shih, used long before the Chin dynasty, was derived from the Sanskrit word, simha, and that the Greek word for China, Tzinista, used by some later writers, appears to be derivative of the Sanskrit Chinasthana. According to Terence Duke, martial arts went from India to China. Fighting without weapons was a specialty of the ancient Kshatriya warriors of India. Both Arnold Toynbee and Sir L. Wooley speak of a ready made culture coming to China. That was the Vedic culture of India.

Until recently, India and China had coexisted peacefully for over two thousand years. This amicable relationship may have been nurtured by the close historical and religious ties of Buddhism, introduced to China by Indian monks at a very early stage of their respective histories, although there are fragmentary records of contacts anterior to the introduction of Buddhism.

Gerolamo Emilio Gerini (1860 -1913) has said: “During the three or four centuries, preceding the Christian era, we find Indu (Hindu) dynasties established by adventurers, claiming descent from the Kshatriya potentates of northern India, ruling in upper Burma, in Siam and Laos, in Yunnan and Tonkin, and even in most parts of southeastern China." The Chinese literature of the third century is full of geographic and mythological elements derived from India. "I see no reason to doubt," comments Arthur Waley in his book, The Way and its Power, "that the 'holy mountain-men' (sheng-hsien) described by Lieh Tzu are Indian rishi; and when we read in Chuang Tzu of certain Taoists who practiced movements very similar to the asanas of Hindu yoga, it is at least a possibility that some knowledge of the yoga technique which these rishi used had also drifted into China."

Lin Yutang (1895-1976) author of The Wisdom of China and India:

"The contact with poets, forest saints and the best wits of the land, the glimpse into the first awakening of Ancient India's mind as it searched, at times childishly and naively, at times with a deep intuition, but at all times earnestly and passionately, for the spiritual truths and the meaning of existence - this experience must be highly stimulating to anyone, particularly because the Hindu culture is so different and therefore so much to offer." Not until we see the richness of the Hindu mind and its essential spirituality can we understand India...."

"India was China's teacher in religion and imaginative literature, and the world's teacher in trignometry, quandratic equations, grammar, phonetics, Arabian Nights, animal fables, chess, as well as in philosophy, and that she inspired Boccaccio, Goethe, Herder, Schopenhauer, Emerson, and probably also old Aesop."


China (Cinaratha) in the Epic of Mahabharata

It is well known that in the Mahabharata the Cinas appear with the Kiratas among the armies of king Bhagadatta of Pragjyotisa or Assam. In the Sabhaparvan this king is described as surrounded by the Kiratas and the Cinas. In the Bhismaparvan, the corps of Bhagadatta, consisting of the Kirtas and the Cinas of yellow color, appeared like a forest of Karnikaras. It is significant that the Kiratas represented all the people living to the east of India in the estimation of the geographers of the Puranas. Even the dwellers of the islands of the Eastern Archipelago were treated as Kiratas in the Epics. The reference to their wealth of gold, silver, gems, sandal, aloewood, textiles and fabrics clearly demonstrates their association with the regions included in Suvarnadvipa. Thus, the connection of the Kiratas and Cinas is a sure indication of the fact that the Indians came to know of the Chinese through the eastern routes and considered them as an eastern people, having affinities to the Kiras, who were the Indo-Mongoloids, inhabiting the Tibeto-Burman regions and the Himalayan and East Indian territories, the word Kirata being a derivation from kiranti or kirati, the name of a group of people in eastern Nepal.


QUOTE
Henry Rudolph Davies (1865 - ) says that Besides Buddhism, Shaivism was also popular in Yunan as is manifest from the prevalence of the cult of Mahakala there. This ancient Indian colony in the south of China was the cradle of Sino-Indian cultural relationship for a long time.

It was an important outpost of Indian cultural expansion along the eastern land-routes, which Colonel Gerolamo Emilio Gerini (1860 -1913) author of Researches on Ptolemy's geography of eastern Asia (further India and Indo-Malay archipelago p. 122 -124 has described as follows:

“During the three or four centuries, preceding the Christian era, we find Indu (Hindu) dynasties established by adventurers, claiming descent from the Kshatriya potentates of northern India, ruling in upper Burma, in Siam and Laos, in Yunnan and Tonkin, and even in most parts of southeastern China. From the Brahmaputra and Manipur to the Tonkin Gulf we can trace a continuous string of petty states, ruled by those scion of the Kshatriya race, using the Sanskrit or Pali language in official documents or inscriptions; building temples and other monuments after the Indu (Hindu) style and employing Brahmana priests for the propitiatory ceremonies, connected with the court and state. Among such Indu (Hindu) monarchies (Theinni) in Burma, of Muang Hang, C’hieng Rung, Muang Khwan and Dasarna (Luang P’hrah Bang) in the Lau country; and of Agranagara (Hanoi) and Campa in Tonkin and Annan.”


QUOTE
Hu Shih, (1891-1962), Chinese philosopher in Republican China. He was ambassador to the U.S. (1938-42) and chancellor of Peking University (1946-48). He said:

"India conquered and dominated China culturally for two thousand years without ever having to send a single soldier across her border."

According to Rene Grousset (1885-1952) French art historian in his book Rise and Splendour of Chinese Empire ASIN 0520005252 p. 79:

"the name China comes from "an ancient" Sanskrit name for the regions to the east, and not, as often supposed, from the name of the state of Ch'in," the first dynasty established by Shih Huang Ti in 221 B.C.



QUOTE
Author Kenneth Ch'en has said:
"Neo-Confucianism was stimulated in its development by a number of Buddhist ideas. Certain features of Taoism, such as its canon and pantheon, was taken over from Buddhism. Works and phrases in the Chinese language owe their origin to terms introduced by Buddhism. Chinese language owe their origin to terms introduced by Buddhism, while in astronomical, calendrical, and medical studies the Chinese benefited from information introduced by Indian Buddhist monks. Finally, and most important of all, the religious life of the Chinese was affected profoundly by the doctrines and practices, pantheon and ceremonies brought in by the Indian religion."

(source: Buddhism in China - By Kenneth Ch'en ISBN 0691000158 p. 3).

Albert Etienne Terrien de Lacouperie, author of Western Origins of Chinese Civilization states that the maritime intercourse of India with China dates from about 680 B.C. when the sea traders of the Indian ocean" whose "Chiefs were Hindus" founded a colony, called Lang-ga, after the Indian name Lanka, about the present gulf of Kiaotchoa....And throughout this period the monopoly of the sea borne trade of China was in their hands."

In the second century A.D., Indians from the Sindhu during the time of Rudradaman, the Khshatrapa Satrap of Kattiawad, took presents by sea to China.

(source: Milinda Panha - Vide p. 127-327).


QUOTE
Trade & Commerce

The chronicle 'Sung-chu' states that all the precious things of land and water came from India. Gems made of rhinoceros' horns and king-fishers' stones, serpent pearls and asbestos cloth, they are being innumerable varieties of these curiosities, were imported into China from India. According to the Chin-hsi-yu-chiu-t' u rare stone came to China from the countries of Chi-pin (Gandhara or Kashmir). Moreover, po-tie ( a fine textile, probably muslin) was produced in India; and as early as A.D. 430 Indian po-tie was sent to China from Ho-lo-tan or Java. In A.D. 519, King Jayavarman of Fu-nan (Kamboja/Cambodia) offered saffron with storax and other aromatics to the Chinese court. Laufer also suggests that in the sixth century saffron was traded from India to Cambodia. In the T'ang Annals, India in her trade with Cambodia and the interior orient, "export to those countries diamonds, sandalwood and saffron." India was a good market for Chinese silk. Kalidasa mentions this silk fabric (Chinamsuka) as one of the most fashionable textiles among the richer sections of society. Silk and silk-products were also much demanded luxury articles even in the reign of Harshavardhana. The countries lying on the route from Kashgar (India) to China, were collectively called by historians and geographers as 'Ser-India', first imbibed Indian culture and then developed into important trade centers.

A contemporary Chinese poet, Po Chu-yi, wrote a poem in praise of Indian music. "It is little wonder," an official publication of the Chinese Republic says, "that when a Chinese audience today hears Indian music, they feel that while possessing a piquant Indian flavor it has a remarkable affinity with Chinese music."


QUOTE
Astronomy: There is also some evidence that works on Indian astronomy were in circulation in China well before the T'ang period. In the annuals of the Sui dynasty, numerous Chinese translations of Indian mathematical and astronomical works are mentioned, such as Po-lo-men Suan fa (The Hindu Arithmetical rules) and Po-lo-men Suan King. These works have vanished, and it is impossible to assess the degree of their influence on Chinese sciences. However, there is definite evidence of Indian influence on Chinese astronomy and calendar studies during the T'ang dynasty. During this period, Indian astronomers were working at the Imperial Bureau of Astronomy which was charged with preparing accurate calendars. Yang Ching-fang, a pupil of Amoghavajra (Pu-k'ung), wrote in 764 that those who wished to know the positions of the five planets and predict what Hsiu (heavenly mansion) a planet would be traversing, should adopt the Indian calendrical methods. Five years earlier, Amoghavajra had translated an Indian astrological work, the Hsiu Yao Ching (Hsiu and Planet Sutra), into Chinese.

At the time there were three astronomical schools at Chang-an: Gautama (Chhuthan), Kasyapa (Chiayeh), and Kumara (Chumolo). In 684 one of the members of the Gautama school, Lo presented a calendar, Kuang-tse-li, which has been in use for three years, to the Empress Wu. Later, in 718, another member of the school, Hsi-ta (Siddhartha), presented to the Emperor a calendar, Chiu-che-li, which was almost a direct translation of an Indian calendar, Navagraha Siddhanta of Varahamihira, and which is still preserved in the T'ang period collection. It was in use for four years. In 729 Siddhartha compiled a treatise based on this calendar which is the greatest known collection of ancient Chinese astronomical writings. This was the first time that a zero symbol appeared in a Chinese text, but, even more important, this work also contained a table of sines, which were typically Indian. I-hsing (682-727) was associated with the Kumara school and was much influenced by Indian astronomy. Indian influence can also be seen in the nine planets he introduced into his calendar, Ta-yen-li. The nine planets included the sun, moon, five known planets, and two new planets, Rahu and Ketu, by which the Indian astronomers represented the ascending and descending nodes of the moon.














Bilal
While for much of the article, I think our Chinese friends are more qualified to answer, but I can show you articles claiming Jesus got all his ideas from india/hindus:)

moral of the story, not everything you google up is true.

Link
AKM
QUOTE(Bilal @ Aug 10 2008, 03:03 PM) *
While for much of the article, I think our Chinese friends are more qualified to answer, but I can show you articles claiming Jesus got all his ideas from india/hindus:)

moral of the story, not everything you google up is true.

Link


I heard about that theory where Jesus came to Kashmir during his early years. Just a theory.

Anyway, yes, I would love to hear from the Chinese members what they think.
Bilal
QUOTE
Just a theory.


Bingo:)
DesiBugger
I cannot account for how individuals here or anywhere feel but at a higher level I think the differences are more political rather than philosphical/religious whereas between India and Pakistan it is a mixture of both. Issues include border disputes since India controls lands that have people who definitely look more Chinese than Indian. India's support for Tibet's autonomy and the Dalai Lama. And the rivalry of two countries striving for influence with India once trying to create a non-aligned movement and now taking a more pro-American stance, in both cases attempting to limit Chinese influence. India's friendship with the Soviet Union which was not always friendly with China. The 1962 war launched by India on China ending in India's defeat, which led to India then actively trying to forge alliances to counter Chinese power only worsening the relationship. Although there was a fear of Chinese communism spreading to India I do not think that was a major factor in the tensions. I think the Chinese definitely want to keep major Western powers off the Asian continent because of the historical legacies, but other countries, not just India, keep inviting them and forging alliances which really annoys the Chinese government.
AKM
QUOTE(DesiBugger @ Aug 10 2008, 03:54 PM) *
I cannot account for how individuals here or anywhere feel but at a higher level I think the differences are more political rather than philosphical/religious whereas between India and Pakistan it is a mixture of both. Issues include border disputes since India controls lands that have people who definitely look more Chinese than Indian. India's support for Tibet's autonomy and the Dalai Lama. And the rivalry of two countries striving for influence with India once trying to create a non-aligned movement and now taking a more pro-American stance, in both cases attempting to limit Chinese influence. India's friendship with the Soviet Union which was not always friendly with China. The 1962 war launched by India on China ending in India's defeat, which led to India then actively trying to forge alliances to counter Chinese power only worsening the relationship. Although there was a fear of Chinese communism spreading to India I do not think that was a major factor in the tensions. I think the Chinese definitely want to keep major Western powers off the Asian continent because of the historical legacies, but other countries, not just India, keep inviting them and forging alliances which really annoys the Chinese government.


So what you are saying is that the animosity is relatively recent and more political in its tone. Hmmm, you have a point.
harrypotter
Well, for me, I don't harbour any good or ill feelings about India. I do like Indian curry though (trying to learn it)

Will there be smoke without fire ?

First, I do find Indian netizens behaviours so ridiculous. I swear to God, the India vs China #### was all started by an Indian writer. I am not being sour here but whenever I randomly come across a report written by Indian news outlet or Indian blogger, they always try to bring in China in some way and spew a lot of sewage all over it. That's why I got fed up and stop reading anything that has these "Chindia, India and China". For example, the other day, I was wandering on the net and I got a link from the CNN news about "India a superpower ?, think again" and that link took me to a forum that has that report posted up. and the first reply was always as expected (from an Indian netizen) " China same too, China is much worse, China no labour law, China cesspool.....etc...." . I did not even make a reply or anything or try to explain, I just closed that site and go to other news site.

And on an international forum ( I won't say which one though sorry), some Indian forumers ( I am not saying all) always try to find those good report written by Indian writers and put up and rub it in the Chinese members face (Yes I mean literally), they went to the Chinese section and posted up and started the bragging fest " In 50 years time, most of the employees will call Indians boss, including Chinese, the Chinese better get their English brushed up or they will have no tourism left, Indians can speak much better English, why those Chinese girls in the Olympic opening ceremony wear western looking cloths, are they ashamed of their Chinese dress ?, Bollywood is already so big that the Chinese can never dream of......etc....."

And everytime I see such things by Indian members there, I only give it a smirk, I hardly try to make a comeback because I know it's pointless because I know "words cannot hurt us, only sticks ands stones can"

Indian newsagency always seem to make me laugh (I am sorry I don't mean to offend Indian people here ) but they always dig out some small thing and write a report especially in the case where India is ahead of China, like that mastercard business ranking last year (If I am not wrong), in that ranking India was only ahead of China in one category, and they went on and say India is better than China......etc..... and things like India is a vibrant democracy, China is communist, India can sustain in a long run, China will collapse....etc..... ok I know that India is a great country with long history and alot of contribution to China like Buddhism...etc... I really appreciate it but c'mon you lot don't have to bring up China whenever something negative about India. China is certainly not a talisman, is it ? and I remember there is a video on youtube in which an Indian TV presenter lady running around a meeting room (in India) interviewing foreign investors and asking them which country between India and China would they prefer as an investment destination, ok fair enough, I have no problem with a survey but in the end that Indian lady embedded a line "as you can see India is better than China in term of investment, prove to be more attractive, hence we believe India can sustain in a long run" and things like "India gave China UN security council seat, China won the 1962 by malicious tactics, not fair, China is a cheater, liar, Chicoms....."

And I think you guys know that Indian writer Heri Sud ? That's right, the former manager of Indian company based in New Delhi and is a free lance writer... or something like that. I think Indian netizens know his reports right ? (and maybe like it alot). He writes alot and alot of anti-China stuff like those above and India can win a war against China, China is backward, obsolete, Chinese economy is a sham, manipulated by the Chicoms..etc.... (which I read about 1 or 2 years ago)

I can surely say to you that Chinese news outlet never ever do such things like putting down other countries and say China is better.....etc....... I know Chinese media is censored but they hardly ever write sensationalist report and put other countries in a bad light and say pretty nice things about China.

I am pretty sure there are still many Chinese netizens out there want to be nice to Indian netizens. Plus this is the Internet, people can say anything they like and how you know they are Chinese ? Like my friend, he's from Cambodia but he went on the Internet and say he's from USA, who knows ?

But I do see alot of very uber nice Indian netizens on forums too.

Sometimes I do think some Chinese netizens are also too naive to fall into the trap of those who pose as Indian, American and start bashing India and America and trigger a verbal wars from both sides. (and even according to the BBC survey, most Americans and Indians think postively of Chinese people, very far from what I see from the net)


The Indians in real life (not the cyberlife) is very amicable and friendly, and I see Indians and Pakistanis get on very well in real life, but the cyber life is so different.

I truly hope one day to see India and China put away the differences and work towards a common goal because as you said India and China share a lot in common in terms of culture.


PS : I do apologise if this post offends anyone.
franklau
QUOTE(DesiBugger @ Aug 10 2008, 01:54 PM) *
I cannot account for how individuals here or anywhere feel but at a higher level I think the differences are more political rather than philosphical/religious whereas between India and Pakistan it is a mixture of both. Issues include border disputes since India controls lands that have people who definitely look more Chinese than Indian. India's support for Tibet's autonomy and the Dalai Lama. And the rivalry of two countries striving for influence with India once trying to create a non-aligned movement and now taking a more pro-American stance, in both cases attempting to limit Chinese influence. India's friendship with the Soviet Union which was not always friendly with China. The 1962 war launched by India on China ending in India's defeat, which led to India then actively trying to forge alliances to counter Chinese power only worsening the relationship. Although there was a fear of Chinese communism spreading to India I do not think that was a major factor in the tensions. I think the Chinese definitely want to keep major Western powers off the Asian continent because of the historical legacies, but other countries, not just India, keep inviting them and forging alliances which really annoys the Chinese government.


Totally agreed with you!
The Chinese hate the Indian very much because the character of the Indians is very disgusting!
They (the Indians) are extremely arrogant, ignorant, offensive, greedy and impolite!
franklau
QUOTE(harrypotter @ Aug 10 2008, 02:52 PM) *
Well, for me, I don't harbour any good or ill feelings about India. I do like Indian curry though (trying to learn it)

Will there be smoke without fire ?

First, I do find Indian netizens behaviours so ridiculous. I swear to God, the India vs China #### was all started by an Indian writer. I am not being sour here but whenever I randomly come across a report written by Indian news outlet or Indian blogger, they always try to bring in China in some way and spew a lot of sewage all over it. That's why I got fed up and stop reading anything that has these "Chindia, India and China". For example, the other day, I was wandering on the net and I got a link from the CNN news about "India a superpower ?, think again" and that link took me to a forum that has that report posted up. and the first reply was always as expected (from an Indian netizen) " China same too, China is much worse, China no labour law, China cesspool.....etc...." . I did not even make a reply or anything or try to explain, I just closed that site and go to other news site.

And on an international forum ( I won't say which one though sorry), some Indian forumers ( I am not saying all) always try to find those good report written by Indian writers and put up and rub it in the Chinese members face (Yes I mean literally), they went to the Chinese section and posted up and started the bragging fest " In 50 years time, most of the employees will call Indians boss, including Chinese, the Chinese better get their English brushed up or they will have no tourism left, Indians can speak much better English, why those Chinese girls in the Olympic opening ceremony wear western looking cloths, are they ashamed of their Chinese dress ?, Bollywood is already so big that the Chinese can never dream of......etc....."

And everytime I see such things by Indian members there, I only give it a smirk, I hardly try to make a comeback because I know it's pointless because I know "words cannot hurt us, only sticks ands stones can"

Indian newsagency always seem to make me laugh (I am sorry I don't mean to offend Indian people here ) but they always dig out some small thing and write a report especially in the case where India is ahead of China, like that mastercard business ranking last year (If I am not wrong), in that ranking India was only ahead of China in one category, and they went on and say India is better than China......etc..... and things like India is a vibrant democracy, China is communist, India can sustain in a long run, China will collapse....etc..... ok I know that India is a great country with long history and alot of contribution to China like Buddhism...etc... I really appreciate it but c'mon you lot don't have to bring up China whenever something negative about India. China is certainly not a talisman, is it ? and I remember there is a video on youtube in which an Indian TV presenter lady running around a meeting room (in India) interviewing foreign investors and asking them which country between India and China would they prefer as an investment destination, ok fair enough, I have no problem with a survey but in the end that Indian lady embedded a line "as you can see India is better than China in term of investment, prove to be more attractive, hence we believe India can sustain in a long run" and things like "India gave China UN security council seat, China won the 1962 by malicious tactics, not fair, China is a cheater, liar, Chicoms....."

And I think you guys know that Indian writer Heri Sud ? That's right, the former manager of Indian company based in New Delhi and is a free lance writer... or something like that. I think Indian netizens know his reports right ? (and maybe like it alot). He writes alot and alot of anti-China stuff like those above and India can win a war against China, China is backward, obsolete, Chinese economy is a sham, manipulated by the Chicoms..etc.... (which I read about 1 or 2 years ago)

I can surely say to you that Chinese news outlet never ever do such things like putting down other countries and say China is better.....etc....... I know Chinese media is censored but they hardly ever write sensationalist report and put other countries in a bad light and say pretty nice things about China.

I am pretty sure there are still many Chinese netizens out there want to be nice to Indian netizens. Plus this is the Internet, people can say anything they like and how you know they are Chinese ? Like my friend, he's from Cambodia but he went on the Internet and say he's from USA, who knows ?

But I do see alot of very uber nice Indian netizens on forums too.

Sometimes I do think some Chinese netizens are also too naive to fall into the trap of those who pose as Indian, American and start bashing India and America and trigger a verbal wars from both sides. (and even according to the BBC survey, most Americans and Indians think postively of Chinese people, very far from what I see from the net)
The Indians in real life (not the cyberlife) is very amicable and friendly, and I see Indians and Pakistanis get on very well in real life, but the cyber life is so different.

I truly hope one day to see India and China put away the differences and work towards a common goal because as you said India and China share a lot in common in terms of culture.
PS : I do apologise if this post offends anyone.


The Indians have such behavior because actually they feel very inferior and so they always show arrogant to protect themselves.
AKM
QUOTE(franklau @ Aug 10 2008, 05:13 PM) *
The Indians have such behavior because actually they feel very inferior and so they always show arrogant to protect themselves.


Fanklau, do you have any opinion on the long historical ties between China and India?
AKM
QUOTE(harrypotter @ Aug 10 2008, 04:52 PM) *
Well, for me, I don't harbour any good or ill feelings about India. I do like Indian curry though (trying to learn it)
Will there be smoke without fire ?
PS : I do apologise if this post offends anyone.


I am curious, do all Chinese (that you know) hate Indians? If yes, what seems to be the most oft-repeated reason?

franklau
QUOTE(AKM @ Aug 10 2008, 03:24 PM) *
I am curious, do all Chinese (that you know) hate Indians? If yes, what seems to be the most oft-repeated reason?


I think most Chinese hate and don't like Indians.
AKM
QUOTE(franklau @ Aug 10 2008, 05:33 PM) *
I think most Chinese hate and don't like Indians.


Do you see any similarities in the cultures of the two nations? What's your opinion on the above article?
harrypotter
QUOTE(franklau @ Aug 10 2008, 03:33 PM) *
I think most Chinese hate and don't like Indians.



Franklau, please do not turn an individual opinion into a mass opinion.

I think it's time for you to update your super small electric bicycle.
harrypotter
QUOTE(AKM @ Aug 10 2008, 03:24 PM) *
I am curious, do all Chinese (that you know) hate Indians? If yes, what seems to be the most oft-repeated reason?



Sorry I haven't heard anything in real life, everything I know is from the net, and I only knew all about those India vs China bs on the net but never encountered it in real life.
fireworks
QUOTE(AKM @ Aug 11 2008, 05:24 AM) *
I am curious, do all Chinese (that you know) hate Indians? If yes, what seems to be the most oft-repeated reason?


I would call it indifference, or lack of emotion.
Ideally, we would consider India a long time neighbour, with whom we have had good memories and would like to keep up the good communications. However, the 1962 war has made this impossible and we know that Indians will hold their grudge for decades to come. So we don't really hold any positive feeling towards Indians because we know that they don't like us. On the other hand, Indians have not hurt us or threatened us or given us reasons to be envious of them, so we don't have much negative feeling either.
So for now, indifference is the logical state of mind.
In the long term, we hope India can get over their loss in 1962. We did not want the war. The conflict was rooted from cunning British border design, like most other border conflicts in the region, we were just responding to an unfortunate situation the British walked India into. The outcome hurt India's pride, but what alternative did China have at the time? We were all victims by the British.
seawolf
If people call it hate and indifference, it is not unilateral, go to Indian forums, people find the feelings and emotions no less intensive there than here.

The root of hostility stems out of British meddling in this areas affairs in 19th and early 20th century when they worked out some secret treaties with Tibetan government during China's darkest time but unacknowleged by any Chinese government. The Indian government intended to inherit all those illigal transactions and even more, therefor the conflict.

One will find it is not a particular case left by the British after their colonial rule around the world, different countries will give you different versions of same stories.

gnak
QUOTE(DesiBugger @ Aug 11 2008, 06:24 AM) *
I cannot account for how individuals here or anywhere feel but at a higher level I think the differences are more political rather than philosphical/religious whereas between India and Pakistan it is a mixture of both. Issues include border disputes since India controls lands that have people who definitely look more Chinese than Indian. India's support for Tibet's autonomy and the Dalai Lama. And the rivalry of two countries striving for influence with India once trying to create a non-aligned movement and now taking a more pro-American stance, in both cases attempting to limit Chinese influence. India's friendship with the Soviet Union which was not always friendly with China. The 1962 war launched by India on China ending in India's defeat, which led to India then actively trying to forge alliances to counter Chinese power only worsening the relationship. Although there was a fear of Chinese communism spreading to India I do not think that was a major factor in the tensions. I think the Chinese definitely want to keep major Western powers off the Asian continent because of the historical legacies, but other countries, not just India, keep inviting them and forging alliances which really annoys the Chinese government.

does anyone here realized the significance of desibuger's post...your the first indian i have seen to mention that india started 1962 war

QUOTE(franklau @ Aug 11 2008, 07:26 AM) *
The Chinese hate the Indian very much because the character of the Indians is very disgusting!
They (the Indians) are extremely arrogant, ignorant, offensive, greedy and impolite!

im chinese and i can tell u why chinese ppl dislike indians has nothing to do with history, its more to do with the social character of the indian ppl, as franklau stated the above is very much true
rahulj
QUOTE(gnak @ Aug 10 2008, 09:47 PM) *
its more to do with the social character of the indian ppl, as franklau stated the above is very much true

A very well researched answer!! Kudos!
AKM
QUOTE(gnak @ Aug 10 2008, 10:47 PM) *
does anyone here realized the significance of desibuger's post...your the first indian i have seen to mention that india started 1962 war
im chinese and i can tell u why chinese ppl dislike indians has nothing to do with history, its more to do with the social character of the indian ppl, as franklau stated the above is very much true



In the larger scheme of things, and I mean going back in history, do the historical ties mean much to the Chinese people today? Or are those irrelevant in today's context? These are general questions for open-ended discussion.

rahulj
QUOTE(AKM @ Aug 10 2008, 10:36 PM) *
In the larger scheme of things, and I mean going back in history, do the historical ties mean much to the Chinese people today? Or are those irrelevant in today's context? These are general questions for open-ended discussion.

This question is pointles and meaningless, though I am not blaming your curiosity.. Half the countries which are allied today have had cultural connections, and most of the times have fought bloody wars.. Anglo French, English-Germans! Do i need to quote more examples? India and Pakistan have had cultural ties.. But that dint stop each other from having a go @ each other whenever possible!! I could pose the same question to you.. the English and Americans have fought a bloody war , yet they are culturally closer as most of the early american cities where English Colonies!! The canadians burnt down the White house, your seat of democracy! yet you and the canadians are like brothers now!! The Mexicans fought with teh Americans over Texas and California, yet we dont see any animosity now! Historical ties means balls these days! Wat is real is the present and the foreseeable future!
ali23
The days of hindi cheeni bhai bhai were over 45 years ago.Around the 1962 war.
AKM
QUOTE(rahulj @ Aug 10 2008, 11:47 PM) *
This question is pointles and meaningless, though I am not blaming your curiosity.. Half the countries which are allied today have had cultural connections, and most of the times have fought bloody wars.. Anglo French, English-Germans! Do i need to quote more examples? India and Pakistan have had cultural ties.. But that dint stop each other from having a go @ each other whenever possible!! I could pose the same question to you.. the English and Americans have fought a bloody war , yet they are culturally closer as most of the early american cities where English Colonies!! The canadians burnt down the White house, your seat of democracy! yet you and the canadians are like brothers now!! The Mexicans fought with teh Americans over Texas and California, yet we dont see any animosity now! Historical ties means balls these days! Wat is real is the present and the foreseeable future!



I think I understand what you are trying to say although it did not come out the way you were intending to. Not your fault (English is probably not your first language). First of all, I am, understandably, not going to give a crash-course on US - England - Mexico - France - Canada historical relationships in this thread (this thread is on Sino-Indian historical ties). I am glad you know a little bit about it though. But the message from your post can be transferred to the present context:

Can the last fifty years of animosity and hatred (if one can call it that, judging by the postings of so many Chinese members) between the two nations (Note: I did not say "peoples") supercede the last five thousand years of cultural and religious bonding between the two peoples? As we say here in America, can the two peoples ever bury the hatchet and "go back to the past"?

That is the purpose of this thread.
fireworks
QUOTE(AKM @ Aug 11 2008, 08:26 PM) *
Can the last fifty years of animosity and hatred (if one can call it that, judging by the postings of so many Chinese members) between the two nations (Note: I did not say "peoples") supercede the last five thousand years of cultural and religious bonding between the two peoples? As we say here in America, can the two peoples ever bury the hatchet and "go back to the past"?

That is the purpose of this thread.

I would say yes. The Indians hold the grudge, we don't. Ours are against UK, France, and other colonizing powers. And like all such emotions, it fades away with the old generations.
China wants peace and corporation with and among all her neighbors.
rahulj
QUOTE(AKM @ Aug 11 2008, 07:26 AM) *
I think I understand what you are trying to say although it did not come out the way you were intending to. Not your fault (English is probably not your first language). First of all, I am, understandably, not going to give a crash-course on US - England - Mexico - France - Canada historical relationships in this thread (this thread is on Sino-Indian historical ties). I am glad you know a little bit about it though. But the message from your post can be transferred to the present context:

Can the last fifty years of animosity and hatred (if one can call it that, judging by the postings of so many Chinese members) between the two nations (Note: I did not say "peoples") supercede the last five thousand years of cultural and religious bonding between the two peoples? As we say here in America, can the two peoples ever bury the hatchet and "go back to the past"?

That is the purpose of this thread.

I wonder which part of my reply made you to think that i was not good @ english! Coming back to the topic, My personal opinion is that such a situation cannot happen atleast until certain issues are ironed out!! Perhaps by 2050 there maybe a situation like US-Canada. But till then, Each one is gonna plot against the other...
zhou
AK,finally you noticed a fact that there's no strong hatred bteween Chinese and Indian PEPOLE(at least I don't find a strong hatred from Chinese side).The 1962 war,which I called it a tragdy,was happened of misunderstanding.The fact is,however,most Chinese negative comments towards India or Indian pepole are for UNPLEASURE,not hatred.
Personally I don't hate Indian,but feel unpleasure of Indian propagandas.If they're or will do someting,China is always involved.I mean,let us be along.We don't want our beautiful and mordern cities to be their new long range missiles' targets.Or we don't want to be blamed by a much more poor country than us for human rights,Tibet or whaterever though they have serious human right problems in Kasmire and hundreds of millions poor pepole in their country are striking for a survive.
Acturally the only country the Chinese hate is Japan,if you really want to figure out which country the Chinese hate.And importantlly with economy development and communication increasing,even this hatred towards Japanese is decreased.With my age growth,I don't have so strong hatred to the Japanese than when I was eighteen.
Let the Chinese,Pakistanis and Indians forget the past and recover a new page of history.In past thousands of years we were neighbours and we'll be in future.Why shouldn't we live in harmony and what can we get from fightting with each other?
AKM
QUOTE(rahulj @ Aug 11 2008, 08:57 AM) *
I wonder which part of my reply made you to think that i was not good @ english! Coming back to the topic, My personal opinion is that such a situation cannot happen atleast until certain issues are ironed out!! Perhaps by 2050 there maybe a situation like US-Canada. But till then, Each one is gonna plot against the other...


Seems to me that there are more unresolved issues between the two peoples than the two nations.

Can the Indian and Chinese members list some of the key issues that, in their opinion, stand between the two peoples? It will also be informative for me to get the Pakistani perception on this "list" as well.
akaram
as an Chinese ,I dont like india
platinum786
You know the world has always been relatively fine until the white man arrived. Relations between China, India (including what is now Pakistan) as well as other neighbouring countries were perfectly fine in the past. Everyone had thier own empires, you knew where they begun and finished. There was the great silk route, and much trade etc. Traditions and customs and species have obviously remained different on the large, though I am sure if you look at people directly across any border across the world, hey won't look too different.

The British arrive, plunder India, try it in China and since then have tried to use what is India as a proxy against the great Chinese empires. Whilst India was under Muslim control this was not possible, but as soon as it fell to the favoured Hindu's, well we know the story since then with opium wars and partition and history since.
jhl
QUOTE
They (the Indians) are extremely arrogant, ignorant, offensive, greedy and impolite!


One guy visited india where he heard indian folklore where many of their greatest heroes choose to lie and deceive. EXample: one "honest" hero is asked by his opponent if his son really was killed. Instead of telling the truth as he is supposed to be a very honest man, the "hero" deliberately tricks his opponent into believing a lie that his son was dead.

He wondered what effect would be growing up in a culture where dishonesty is not rejected but seen as a valid way of getting things done. His impressions of india there suggest many but not all indians follow the example of these heroes.

Examples:
1) Many americans tell of indian callcenters pretending to be american instead of indian. They will use fake indentity, names, accent etc. The intent is to deliberately deceive the american people into thinking they are someone they are not. When exposed. they will continue to lie they are american.
2) The indian government regularly releasing information and statistics they know is false. Statistics for poverty level, middle class etc are all fixed to make themselves look better than they really are.
3) On the internet anyone can be anybody they want to be. Certain indians go on forums pretending to be someone else. Some even pretend to be Chinese people. The irony is that while they think they continue to fool people, their only real accomplishment with this behavior is that they themselves have provided the proof of their own dishonest nature. laugh.gif

yuebaili3
QUOTE(jhl @ Aug 31 2008, 10:23 AM) *
One guy visited india where he heard indian folklore where many of their greatest heroes choose to lie and deceive. EXample: one "honest" hero is asked by his opponent if his son really was killed. Instead of telling the truth as he is supposed to be a very honest man, the "hero" deliberately tricks his opponent into believing a lie that his son was dead.

He wondered what effect would be growing up in a culture where dishonesty is not rejected but seen as a valid way of getting things done. His impressions of india there suggest many but not all indians follow the example of these heroes.

Examples:
1) Many americans tell of indian callcenters pretending to be american instead of indian. They will use fake indentity, names, accent etc. The intent is to deliberately deceive the american people into thinking they are someone they are not. When exposed. they will continue to lie they are american.
2) The indian government regularly releasing information and statistics they know is false. Statistics for poverty level, middle class etc are all fixed to make themselves look better than they really are.
3) On the internet anyone can be anybody they want to be. Certain indians go on forums pretending to be someone else. Some even pretend to be Chinese people. The irony is that while they think they continue to fool people, their only real accomplishment with this behavior is that they themselves have provided the proof of their own dishonest nature. laugh.gif


Without proofs these accusations are worthless.
But Chinese people unfortunately have the habit of making groundless statements. This often makes discussion useless.
Batajnica
QUOTE(yuebaili3 @ Sep 1 2008, 10:46 PM) *
Without proofs these accusations are worthless.
But Chinese people unfortunately have the habit of making groundless statements. This often makes discussion useless.



any country's autocephaly or unification purpose never need proofs,no mattre what us,russia,china,france,etc are too.
it is the process of advancetage division.
yuebaili3
QUOTE(Batajnica @ Sep 1 2008, 09:03 AM) *
any country's autocephaly or unification purpose never need proofs,no mattre what us,russia,china,france,etc are too.
it is the process of advancetage division.


DOES ANYONE UNDERSTAND WHAT HE IS SAYING?

(Batajanica,你还是用中文写吧。)
JET_Flash
I don't hate Chinese because i don't have a reason to hate them. Every one around me is too desperate trying to earn for a living including me . Now there are many who don't know a jack about other and keep yelling at each other. First ,lets know about each other , then make a comment .

About the call center , the Americans are paying the Indians to lie to the Americans. So no regrets . laugh.gif
Batajnica
QUOTE(JET_Flash @ Sep 2 2008, 02:20 AM) *
I don't hate Chinese because i don't have a reason to hate them. Every one around me is too desperate trying to earn for a living including me . Now there are many who don't know a jack about other and keep yelling at each other. First ,lets know about each other , then make a comment .

About the call center , the Americans are paying the Indians to lie to the Americans. So no regrets . laugh.gif



chinese never really hate any country,but they like quarrel with indian,korean,yankee,japanese,briton,
recently the france and german were listed the inventory of quarrel.
if a chinese meet a indian in private,they will be polite and friendly
Gundy
QUOTE(yuebaili3 @ Sep 1 2008, 08:46 AM) *
Without proofs these accusations are worthless.
But Chinese people unfortunately have the habit of making groundless statements. This often makes discussion useless.

Unfortunately you are the one who has the habit of making groundless statements not us according to your previous posts.

Btw about this hatred problem, I dont think most of common chinese ppl do not hate india because 1st, they dont really care about india, and 2nd, most of the news about india from CCTV are either nutural or positive. U wont be able to find any nation-bashing topic from CCTV broadcast because chinese ppl believe in the idea of 己所不欲,勿施于人。unfortunatelly many nations are not that merciful in politics.
seawolf
QUOTE(Batajnica @ Sep 1 2008, 06:33 PM) *
chinese never really hate any country,but they like quarrel with indian,korean,yankee,japanese,briton,
recently the france and german were listed the inventory of quarrel.
if a chinese meet a indian in private,they will be polite and friendly


Hoho, Chinese are friendly to everyone in private of course, even to this yuebaili as long as he doesn't spread anti-China feelings.

Indians, they are a quarrel loving people too;

Koreans, Chinese don't hate them, only dislike them so much for stealing Chinese cultures and traditions. Look at their national flag, it is China's Dao logo;

Japanese, nowadays they seem to be a quiet people, we don't know if they changed nature;

Uncle Sam is by far the number one in world power, he doesn't like to be disturbed;

Germans and French, it is said by some theory that when someone is performing a catchup, it causes resentments and groundless accusations especialy a commi country as big as China. The best response is China slows down or reverses the catchup efforts.
JET_Flash
QUOTE(seawolf @ Sep 2 2008, 08:01 AM) *
Hoho, Chinese are friendly to everyone in private of course, even to this yuebaili as long as he doesn't spread anti-China feelings.

Indians, they are a quarrel loving people too;

Koreans, Chinese don't hate them, only dislike them so much for stealing Chinese cultures and traditions. Look at their national flag, it is China's Dao logo;

Japanese, nowadays they seem to be a quiet people, we don't know if they changed nature;

Uncle Sam is by far the number one in world power, he doesn't like to be disturbed;

Germans and French, it is said by some theory that when someone is performing a catchup, it causes resentments and groundless accusations especialy a commi country as big as China. The best response is China slows down or reverses the catchup efforts.


You never like any countries ..don't u?.. can u list some countries u say is calm and quite for u?
seawolf
QUOTE(JET_Flash @ Sep 1 2008, 09:15 PM) *
You never like any countries ..don't u?.. can u list some countries u say is calm and quite for u?


Sorry, I don't know many countries, so I can't give you a list.

By the way, I didn't say I don't lik all the countries I mentioned. By some tourist organization's statistics, Indians are really noizy tourists, louder than Chinese on the list, and Chinese are not very good tourists either, a shame for my country folks.

Every country has its merits and vices, you can't furbid criticism of their vices.
godot
There is no common hatre against indian among ordinary chinese ppl for they have NO knowledge of and are NOT concerned with contemproary india at all. A stereotype that india is a populous, peaceful, buddhist nation still prevails in china because chinese ppl think this nation is where china's buddhism derive from. Last month, a indian professor payed a visit to my lab. As a result india become a hot topic in my office and i was so astonished to see the lackness of the knowledage of india among my co-workers and teacher, all of whom have received a higher education in china

1 indian is a nation which speak "indian" as chinese do

2 all of them thought india was a buddhist nation before i told them that the predominant religions in india are a religion called "hindu", Islam and Sikhism

3 all of them can't believe what they'd heard when i told them the inhumane caste system do exist in india nowadays and that's why this professor is a vegetarianist owing to his bramin identity. my adorable friends are not even able to understand my conversation with the indian professor in English but insisted i am "brainwashed" by the CPC's conspiracy to disgrace our great curry neighbour and to fool chinese populace!!!. it's pathetic that CPC's education only get opposite effect. LOL!!!

4 half of them didn't know the existence of 1962 sino-india war and inda govt's attitude towards to dalai lama as our govt consider the trivial victory is insignificant to mention and are not intended to stir up hatre towards india. however a few of them know this because plenty of nationalists accuse govts of ceding "south tibet" namely "AP" to india on the internet.

5 some of them thought the poor people lead a happy life due to "free education , free healthcare, protection of private property" because india is "democarcy". i know where their rosy image derive from: our press are too enthusiastic on criticising our govt and policies by projecting india to an utopia. they don't know the poor's life in india sunks. their healthcare and eduction is even worse than that of North korea and Mao's China. it's ridiculous our friends are nostalgic of a sunking country while enjoying the air-conditioned and modern office and facilities

my observation is that chinese ppl does not hate india. On the contrary, they bear a unrealistic and rosy image of their curry neighbor. partly becauese of historical understanding, partly because the misleading of the medias, who are not slightly interested in smearing india, otherwise it will be a different scenario
Batajnica
QUOTE(seawolf @ Sep 2 2008, 10:31 AM) *
Hoho, Chinese are friendly to everyone in private of course, even to this yuebaili as long as he doesn't spread anti-China feelings.

Indians, they are a quarrel loving people too;

Koreans, Chinese don't hate them, only dislike them so much for stealing Chinese cultures and traditions. Look at their national flag, it is China's Dao logo;

Japanese, nowadays they seem to be a quiet people, we don't know if they changed nature;

Uncle Sam is by far the number one in world power, he doesn't like to be disturbed;

Germans and French, it is said by some theory that when someone is performing a catchup, it causes resentments and groundless accusations especialy a commi country as big as China. The best response is China slows down or reverses the catchup efforts.



korean are disgustion for their mouth.
their mouth will damege their advantage
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