I just got the news that NWFP has voted against Moshe. This is the second province after Punjab that Mushy has suffered loss of confidence. Now, I guess the it is a mere formality in Sindh and Balochistan provinces. I still recommend 'sadar saab estifaa de dein, warna jo paise kaamain hain (pakistani ko farokh kar ke) wo bhi chale jaayenge; aur khuda-na-khasta kahin trial ho gaya to gaddari ka charge lag jaayega'. The public doesn't want you anymore so please 'GO MUSHARRAF GO'

The frontier assembly should be focusing on the lack of electricity in Peshawar for the last 3 days, due to miscreant attack on electricity tower. but they are busy with something else.

http://dawn.com/2008/08/13/welcome.htm

Sindh Assembly passes resolution asking Musharraf to resign
KARACHI, Aug 13 (AP/AFP): The Sindh Assembly on Wednesday unanimously passed a resolution to push President Pervez Musharraf to quit. The opposition boycotted the vote, letting the resolution pass with the support of 93 lawmakers. The resolution accuses Musharraf of violating the constitution and gross misconduct, and demands that he seek votes of confidence from parliament and the provinces or resign. Otherwise, lawmakers will push for his impeachment. The Sindh resolution was approved amid shouts of “Go, Musharraf, Go!” and desk thumping. “The resolution is adopted,” assembly Speaker Nisar Khuhro said after the resolution was approved through a show of hands, as members chanted “Go Musharraf, Go!” “This resolution is against the authoritarian regime of Musharraf. If he cares a little bit about his honour and dignity he must resign forthwith,” assembly member and provincial Information Minister Shazia Mari said. Jam Madad Ali of the pro-Musharraf Pakistan Muslim League-Q said the resolution was “unconstitutional and illegal” and pledged continued support for the embattled president. The Sindh Assembly was the third of four provincial assemblies to have passed a resolution against President Musharraf. (Posted @ 15:11 PST)

This was expected. For all those who believe that Mushy is not going: 'Mere hisab se, Ramzan tak rukhna bhi mushkil hai' ( I hope that you get what I want to say). This was the same guy who was giving such kind of statements for the elected government. Look what has happened now !!!

these resolutions have no legal or constitutional impact and are ignorant of the common man's problems.

What an absolute waste of time.

When inflation is at the highest it has ever been. When we have a war going on in our FATA areas and our economy is falling apart. They have nothing but a political vendetta to settle. SHAME ON THEM!

Zionist, one who laughs last, laughs the best, save all your lol's for Ramazan, you'll need it.

A resolution has been passed that Musharraf should resign.
Meaning now they have permission (only in the said provinces) in the lower house to ask Musharraf to resign.
What does that mean?

Next, if Musharraf does not resign, then what?
And Musharraf doesn't seek VoC, as the constituition doesn't require him to as yet, he took one barely a year ago, then what?
Neither is a constituitional demand, but let's assume it passes, and Musharraf doesn't oblidge, they they move for impeachment.
Ccorrect?

Do the coalition have 2/3rd in the assembly and 2/3rd votes in the senate? No
Then would it be constituitional for Musharraf to execute 58-2B? Yes
Correct?

If the opposition had 2/3rd in either one, the first thing that they'd do is shelve 58, just think, why aren't they doing that to begin with, just think.
Put your head under that LOL Hammer, perhaps that'll help you digest.

they are building up momentum. When all four provinces say that they do not want the president, do you think that it has absolutely no meaning? Even if it is not binding, it does show that people do not want him. With time and momentum building up, as you can already see in punjab etc., more and more of former allies will go to the gov side (see sherpao party, fata members, independents, MLQ members etc.) and it is possible that they get the 2/3 majority.

When our politicians see a shift in numbers they try to side with the winner that is what gov is hoping for.

This could not be done for 58-2B directly. That was not enough argument to motivate public support. To personalize the matter and gather support is much more easier. Also it has a signal effect for the yanks. When they see all provinces leaving mush and some parties and allies too, they wont like to stand on his side either.

I must say, this has been a good strategy by the gov.

This is all presuure tactis all those are now shouting " go mush go " are bunch a opportunist and looosers they cant even distinguish between patrotriatism and looters. To all who are wishing for mush to quit donet realize the ling term consequence...this is nutting but ganja's personal vendetta and zardari should not forget that he cant be unilateral on his NRO deal no matter what happens whether musharaff stay or not Ganja and NS will be hanged in the public.

Pull the NRO out from under these people's feet, then we'll see how much momentum they have rolling downhill. MQM doesn't support impeachment, majority of PML-Q doesn't support impeachment, and part of PPP doesn't support impeachment. Getting the 2/3 they need will be a challenge.

So what? What then?
Democracy has it's limits, it can't move directions with people's whims as and when they chose, that's why only the president may use 58B, and only the assembly may impeach, not every other person who posts on forums.

If going by your substance, Bush had become unpopular 3 years ago, and the people should have removed him.
Except, there were no provisions in the constituition that after voting's closed, citizens may ammend their options.

Remids me, even Pakistan's constituition doesn't have such an option.
Again, so what, what then?

People don't like him, too bad, endure the current scenario untill 2013.
It's not as if they have any options available as such.
Unless, they go on another long march and bury more tyres.

Nah, what am I saying, just change the constituition when dis-restored-posed IC restores the 73 constituition.

I know it has no leagal consequences but it does show the will of the people. The legal binding consequences will be those from the NA. The whole province thing is to pressurize the MLQ members in the NA to side with the gov. and to pressure breakaway group of the PPP to remain with the gov too. Also it serves as a signal to the yanks.

I am not sure if the gov will win. But the chances are increasing day by day. They have adopted a good pressure policy. Lets wait and see.

Zionist, one who laughs last, laughs the best, save all your lol's for Ramazan, you'll need it.


This means that NOBODY WANTS HIM ANYMORE !! GET THE HELL OUT OF THE PRESIDENT HOUSE!!!


Kyon ji anna de pyon de jaagir aae, je nai jaana aae? Ya Allah taala ne usko nabi baana kar bheja aae? Who you think is gonna come and save him? Army? Not this time, Karzai? Nah, Chacha Bush? Nah, the bhindis?


Everyone knows that this not required, but nobody wants to impeach him. They are trying to give him a safe passage. But it seems that Mushy wants to be tried in the court, get impeached and then sent to prison where he wants to grind the 'chakki' to reduce the 'atta' crisis



Why don't you leave this to the democratically elected government. I mean bro what happened in the past 2 days? Look at Post # 3 you were in favor of this process? Correct me if I am wrong?!!

I was never in favour of any other person in the President House, but President Musharraf.
I posted the news snippet in post 3 as a joke, this thread is a circus after all, there is no truth in it.
Seems, you're another one who thinks that the assumptions are the only obvious options, Good Luck!

In your above reply, you failed to address this:


It doesn't mean no one want's you, it means we got more important things to do, don't get your panties in a twist.
Hope this Ramazan is more beneficial to you than the last one, Allah is most Rehman.

Quick question, how did you manage to squeeze Karzai and Army into your reply to my post?

Okay if I failed to answer. What does it mean:

1. When you and your party is thrashed in the elections?
2. All the major political parties in all the provinces are against you and have passed a referendum for impeachment?
3. Even your own party members vote against you in all the provinces?
4. When 80% of people in the country are against you and your policies?
5. When you killed your own people in by sending army and gunships?
6. When you sell your own countrymen for $5000 per head?
7. When you dismiss an independent judiciary just because it did not allow you sell a nation's asset (Steel Mill) to Indians?
8. When you tell a popular leader that "your security depends on your relations with me"? And later that leader is killed.
9. When you violate the Constitution and also the oath that you took in the Army?
10. When you undertake a misadventure ’ of Kargil and implemented it, without informing the elected government, the chiefs of the air force and the navy.
11. When you bring a disgrace to the nation by importing guys like 'Shortcut' who flee from the country after looting it?

And on to top it off "you admit that you have violated the constitution, not once but twice?". Please let me know if I am wrong in justifying the impeachment process.



I just wanted to know who would save his a$$ this time??

you sure you aren't Hamid Mir's long lost love child?

because 80% of those points are pieces of some journalists imagination.

No Sir, I am not. Even if 80% are some "journalist's imagination" rest 20% are my own arguments. And I can go all day long these were major points that came from top of my head.

Was it before or after you snuck your head under the LOL Hammer?

I think after that Thx for the advice. So what do you think??!

I personally think it is time for us to Kiss musharaf a good bye.After 9 long years, I am confused that he is working to make Pakistan, or break Pakistan.

He should give a strong defending speech on Assembly floor, but he must admit atleast something went wrong during his 9 years.
after that he should gracefully resign and leave for USA, Turkey, Saudia or Karachi, or Jail, if possible. (depending on last speech, USA may like him hanged instead)

if he is too necessary and good for pakistan, he can wait for 4-5 years, and look for a come back in politics. people will have a better picture about him with time, like they did for BB or NS.

but atleast for now, Pakistani politics seem like a frozen computer that needs a reboot.

I think this about sums up all the hullabaloo over nothing topee drama being orchestrated by Ghadaari and Ganja goon.

shehz, if you are for mush I would understand that. Everyone has his own opinion, founded or founded strong or weak. However, I do not understand that you think all this impeachment process is nothing and is not going to have any effects!

I think you are in for a big surprise, its going to be either make or break for the gov now. Either mush will resign and gov gain some credibility or they will fail and loose even the last bit of public support.

Do you mean that they already have little public support?

what a crock of bull. Just to respond to your first nonsense point: Why would someone be impeached if his party lost the elections??

They are loosing public support rapidly due to inflation, load shedding etc. Is this anything new? Especially the PPP is loosing public support rapidly due to its inactiveness on judges problem. PMLN has still some support but if they fail to oust mush, they will be seen as powerless in the coalition and also loose support for being in coalition. That is why both parties will make it sure that mush is ousted.

I never said to impeach him because he lost the elections. I said, impeach him because of points: 5,6,7,10 & 11.

seriously mate ... do you even realize what you are typing?


#5 .......... Operation has intensified and NWFP is under defacto governer rule, and guess what it is all happeneing under PPP's govt, who is willing to bend 1000X more than musharaf every did

#6 ......... ALthough there's ziltch as proof for handing over Pakistani citizens .... but even if so .. he managed $5K a piece, where as your beloved BB had offered the Prima-dona of Nuclear black market for Free


#7 ......... First and foremost, the CJ ifthikar was reinstated, so that was hardly a dismisal over steelmil, as your assert. And even if he did so .... that is still a far more constitutional dismisal than what Nawaz Sharif did .... stromed Supreme court with Armed Militia and chased the CJ out of the office. May be you like things that way better.


#10 ........ You are just singing Nawaz's song on this one. Everyone who should have had known .... knew well about Kargil; including your beloved pathological liar ... called Nawaz Sharif. And its hardly a misadventure when the enemy physically runs out of body bags to put its dead soldiers in. Had Nawaz Sharif not sold out Kargil for photoshoot with Clinton ... we'd have had india on its knees in matter of weeks. Problem is that your memory is either very short or very selective.


#11 ......... How was Shaukat Aziz a disgrace? the man was #2 at the world's largest financial giant in the world. Please explain how he's a disgrace .... all i see is a stupid remark without any factual data or proof. unless by using the term "import" you are suggesting that every expat somehow brings "disgrace" upon the country? mind you if it were'nt for expats and their $6billion+ annual remitences ... you country would have had crashed and burned a long time ago.

seriously mate ... do you even realize what you are typing?

So justify killing of innocent civilians in the name of collateral damage?!!


According this logic, will you give your family members to USA if Mushy was to give you $5000 per head? If Mushy refuses contact me. I will give $10,000 per head. (Don't feel bad, I am just trying to talk on your lines. Nothing personal)

Okay, but why was he removed in the first place? His term was not ending nor had he done anything unconstitutional? Please think about it.

Just because of this "glorified operation" of yours we got a bad press, lost democracy and turned into a satellite state of USA. Ever thought of that?


If he is so brilliant and geinus why did he flee from the country? Why doesn't come back to Pakistan and answer the public? Leave aside answering, why can't he guide the "mofo" (Ishaq Dar) on how to run the economy that he fudged? Just because of his act of fleeing from the country there are news that, the government may issue a 'Red Corner Notice'. I hope you know that this means? This in simple terms more mockery of Pakistan. I agree with you on expats money. But we are not doing any favor by sending money, we are working in our own interest of multiplying that money, neither has anyone asked us to do so. In view lets not talk about the money we send to Pakistan.


If answer to any of the questions is negative I say "let the head of a dictator roll"

Balochistan MPAs pass no-trust motion against Musharraf

Updated at: 1900 PST, Friday, August 15, 2008

QUETTA: Lawmakers in the Balochistan Assembly on Friday unanimously passed a no-trust resolution against President Pervez Musharraf and demanded that he should seek a vote of confidence from the present assembly or quit immediately.

Balochistan Assembly after passing anti-Musharraf motion became the fourth provincial assembly to reject the beleaguered president. 57 MPAs voted in favour of the resolution, 7 MPAs remained absent including the only opposition member Sardar Yar Muhammad Rind.

Balochistan Assembly has 65 members in the house.

All the speakers who took part in the debate alleged that President Musharraf was guilty of violating the Constitution twice, creating economic and power crises and being responsible for pitting one province against the other sowing the seeds of confrontation. MPAs also accused President Musharraf of being responsible for the assassination of Nawab Akber Bugti and other Baloch people.

http://thenews.jang.com.pk/updates.asp?id=52189

Why was GoP unable to produce most of the missing people on the orders of the SC?

You are misguided if you think the kidnapped people were taken on a picnic in Natia Gali.

or in a country where weekly kidnappings from the paid thugs of the PPP and ML-N reach 100s in every province ... many could just have been those kidnappings or sucides

ps. agencies ko koi shauk nahin hai kay who in missing persons ko bitha kar rooz khana kilayin

Yaar IE come on.


You can't explain 600 kidnappings away like this.

The fact that these 600 have been publicised shows precisely that their disappeaances are different from your usual kidnappings and murders.

Agencies ko kahan khilana parhna hai? That's what I'm saying... they hand them over to the US. $5000 per man.

so institutions who fundings runs in hundreds of millions, if not billions sold 600 folks for $300,000 USD? Itnay ki to Koi Siyasatdan bhi rishwat nahin layta these days

Lots of people are writing on this issue in the local newspapers (but of course the headlines are imported from our main media ! i.e; negative) :-

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayLetters...20&strpath=

Impeachment not an answer
12 August 2008

IN MY vision, Musharraf is an honest and brave leader, undemocratic and unelected though. Now he is a victim of international politics but he has enough grey matter to tackle these problems. As a matter of fact, the whole third world needs a leader like Musharraf. Impeachment of Musharraf is not the answer to political crisis in Pakistan.

-Dr. Syed Mohd Mukarram, Sharjah

Loved this one :-

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayLetters...15&strpath=

Dear President...
13 August 2008


Dear President Musharraf,


I AM one of those Pakistanis who love Pakistan and as such consider myself one of a minority. I do not expect you to pay any heed to this letter of mine nevertheless whatever is going on has forced me to pen a few words to you.

Mr. President, with a literacy rate of less than 60%, we are a nation at the lowest rung of the international literacy ladder. Before holding the latest fateful elections you ought to have known that our votes belong to people who promise us , ‘bread, clothes and shelter’, good jobs or to those whom we fear. Some of us vote just because we consider elections and rallies, a welcome break in the monotony of deprivation, a sort of prolonged party. We do not vote because we love Pakistan and wish the best for it. We think as families, clans, regions and ethnic groups. We could not quite place you in any of these groups so we could not possibly vote for you. Moreover, you did not make the usual speeches and promises to feed us, clothe us and house us.

Mr. President, you are a man of honour and character. We do not appreciate such men. You were trying to force us into loving Pakistan while we are fond of loving ourselves. What kind of a naïve person are you?
Mr. President, please resign. We do not deserve you. Facing the impeachment is another naivety you will commit as the people who have already bought our votes will spend some more and buy some more. They will make it sure that you regret the vision of a strong Pakistan. True, we will call you a coward for opting to resign/flee instead of challenging the charges against you but then what else do you expect from us? We love mistaking dignified silence as cowardly paralysis or proof of guilt.

In short, Mr. President, let us destroy Pakistan because it’s something we love doing and will never quit doing!! Save yourself instead of trying to save Pakistan!!!!''
- Saima Noreen, Sharjah

Toronto Star: Musharraf's refusal to resign seen as a bravura last stand http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/479750

NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/16/world/as...amp;oref=slogin

Musharraf Vows to Fight Impeachment Charges

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan — President Pervez Musharraf fought back Friday against politicians who asserted he would resign rather than face impeachment charges, saying through his chief political supporter that he would challenge the charges when they were brought to Parliament.
Politicians across all parties, however, characterized the public insistence by Mr. Musharraf, a former military man, as a kind of last stand, a bravura performance that could not be maintained under the political reality that almost all of his support had evaporated.

If Mr. Musharraf does not step down voluntarily very soon, the man who succeeded him last year as army chief, Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, will quietly make it clear he has to leave, said two senior Pakistani figures who declined to be named because of the sensitivity of the situation.

The army, which remains the most revered institution in Pakistan, does not want impeachment proceedings to begin, fearing it would be tarnished, several politicians said.

Nonetheless, a statement issued by a presidential spokesman said that reports that Mr. Musharraf would resign were “baseless and malicious.”

In an interview on the English language television channel Dawn, Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, the chairman of Mr. Musharraf’s party, the Pakistan Muslim League-Q, said the president would deal with the charges “in a democratic spirit and in accordance with the Constitution.”

Mr. Hussain, whose party holds 51 of 342 seats in the National Assembly, added: “Let them bring the charges. So far they haven’t brought any charges.”

But politicians up and down the political spectrum, including some from Mr. Musharraf’s party, said Friday that they doubted that Mr. Musharraf would actually appear in Parliament to respond to the charges. It is clear, they said, that he cannot prevail in a vote.

Leaders of the two major parties in the coalition government announced last week that they would seek Mr. Musharraf’s impeachment on charges that include illegally suspending the Constitution, imposing emergency rule last November and wrongly dismissing 60 judges under that decree.

The information minister, Sherry Rehman, said Friday that a drafting panel had completed a charge sheet against Mr. Musharraf. She did not specify the charges nor a date for presenting them to Parliament.

The decision not to announce a date appeared intended to leave the door open for continuing negotiations on how Mr. Musharraf should exit, and the terms of immunity from prosecution that he is seeking.

Mr. Musharraf has indicated that if he steps down, he wants to stay in Pakistan, people familiar with the exit negotiations said.

But because of the rapidly deteriorating security situation in Pakistan and the difficulty of protecting him against Islamic militants, who have tried to assassinate him at least twice, a former member of the president’s cabinet said Friday that he believed that Mr. Musharraf would go into exile with a promise that he could return to Pakistan after a certain period.

Mr. Musharraf served as both president and chief of the army from October 1999 until last November. He staged a coup against Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in 1999. Mr. Sharif now leads the Pakistan Muslim League-N, the minority partner in the coalition government and the chief instigator of the effort to impeach Mr. Musharraf.

The new army chief, General Kayani, has repeatedly said he wants to keep the army out of politics, a rare pledge in Pakistan, which has been ruled for more than half its existence by the military. He appeared to be scrupulously sticking to his pledge during the current crisis.

The army opposes Mr. Musharraf’s contesting the impeachment charges in part because the resulting debate could bring into the public domain deeply embarrassing information about the army, said Ishaq Khan Khakwani, a member of the central executive committee of the Pakistan Muslim League-Q.

“Impeachment means disgrace, and the army would not like to see their institution humiliated,” said Mr. Khakwani, a former supporter of the president.

In a sign of the low level of support for Mr. Musharraf, the coalition parties presented resolutions this week against him in the four provincial assemblies. In Pakistan’s system, they take part in electing the president, along with the National Assembly.

The resolutions were intended as an early test of Mr. Musharraf’s political strength and were presented in the hope, according to some coalition politicians, that poor results on the measures might deter him from facing the impeachment.

All four assemblies voted overwhelmingly against the president. On Wednesday, in the assembly in Sindh Province, Mr. Musharraf did not garner one vote, and his main supporters there, the Muttahida Quami Movement, abstained.

“The dice is loaded against the president,” Mr. Khakwani said. “He cannot fight impeachment within the Constitution.”

According to some tallies, Mr. Musharraf can probably count on fewer than 20 of the 51 votes his party holds in the National Assembly if impeachment proceedings go ahead.

Mr. Khakwani said he was certain the president would resign before the coalition presented charges.

“My information is that the impeachment vote will not take place,” he said.

In an interview on Dawn television on Friday night, Asif Ali Zardari, the leader of the major party in the coalition, the Pakistan Peoples Party, said Mr. Musharraf should realize he had no option but to leave.

“From a position when everyone was saying, ‘Why should he go?’ everyone is asking, ‘Why shouldn’t he go?’ ” Mr. Zardari said.

what do you think now? Had the provencial assembly votes no effect?

Yessssss........ Where are all of those who were claiming Mushy to be "Mard-e-Maidan" . Let's see where he escapes now after this. He should be tried and be punished accordingly. I appeal to the government to issue a 'Red Corner' interpol notice and bring that b@$t@rd 'Shortcut' aziz and punish him too and put him in the same cell as Moshe. Jeeway Jeeway Pakistan. Let the true democracy reign in and tell the world that we are not afraid of any general nor can we be silenced by guns and threats.

What do you mean ... was?

He still is!

The general didn't even do anything; we all know the past of NS & Zardari who have ordered hits on Cheif Ministers; Judges of Supreme court; family members etc. He should have had CJ killed like Shabaz did ... or ransacked Supreme court like Nawaz did.


Congradulations on this CIA sponsored Democracy.

Yeh Kanjar Mulk toor dain gay

So why did he resign like a coward? Why did he not face the charges and face the trial if he was so sure that he is not guilty? Haan?

Suggest you cool it...

Is he sheltering in London, or hiding in Dubai or does he owns a Surrey Palace or a multi-million pound flat in London???

I will answer you in the next couple of days when his plane from Chaklala airbase takes off. Till then you can claim what you want.

resignation is not cowardice. He did not pursue a futile defense of impeachment when he didnt have the numbers and the politicians simply dont care what he said.

Exactly..... resignation is not a cowardice. But, not facing the impeachment and the trial is not bravery (which he claims to be) either. And in such circumstances when he keeps on repeating that he has not done anything wrong. My simple question is, why is he resigning and not fighting to keep his position and pride as the president of Pakistan? Is he afraid that "kahin pol na khul jaaye?"

Yea, according to your kind, a plane has been sitting at Chaklala for several weeks, has he also got a mansion in Turkey?

it was pointless to go into impeachment as he did not have the numbers. Neither do we know what the impeachment was going to be about. He resigned because there is no way out and folks dont want him as president anymore. They think musharraf leaving will lead to gardens blooming in Pakistan.

There is no cowardice here, just your tiny ego wanting to be massaged.

until two days ago, you people were claiming that he will not resign and that he has a lot of support of pakistani people!!!

Me?!!! dude please take a look at any of my posts I have always been in favor of the Impeachment process. Please quote me on any one occasion otherwise and I will stop arguing.

Cheers

Dargay bhai, when did I sound egoist?? :s yaar, I am just saying that all the members on PDF were against a popular vote of public. I know, it will not make any difference no matter who the person in Awain-e-Sadar be. As long as we don't get our act together we will have hard times in our country. Now that Musharraf is gone at least the ELECTED parties have no excuse not to perform. This is all I am saying.