ACM T Mahmood gave an interview recently to AFM and was published in Sep 08 issue.

Here are the main points covered in the interview.
1) By 2015, PAF will comprise 240 JF-17, 60 F-16's, 40 FC-20's (PAF version of J-10), 50 F-7PG's, 4 SAAB Erieye, 4 ZDK-03 (PAF version of Y-8), 4 IL-78 Midas

2) Current order status comprises; 150 JF-17's, 32 F-16's (variant unspecified), 4 Erieye's, 4 IL-78

3) FC-20 order should be confirmed in next 12 months or so, whilst final configuration is worked out. Current J-10 technology is not upto PAF requirements and as the platform natures, PAF hopes to include western equipment in the J-10, thereby signifying a different version from PLAAF J-10, which will be known as FC-20 in PAF service. FC-20 will not be required to have any conformal fuel tanks, as it has sufficient internal fuel capacity as well as AAR by Il-78 Midas tankers. Although AESA radar would be nice to have, there is no confirmation if this will be made available to PAF. (persumably refers to non-Chinese suppliers willingness to supply)

4) FC-20 requirement stands at 2 squadrons of 36-40 single and dual seaters

5) IL-78 Midas tankers will be able to provide AAR for all PAF fighter aircraft with the exception of the US manufactured F-16's (ence the conformal fuel tanks on the block 52 on order makes hence). F-16's can only be refueld ny a boom system whereas the Midas will be equipped with the probe and drogue underwing pods system. PAF is holding out hope that a KC-135 could be acquired from the US in the near future. First Midas delivery will commence early 2009

6) Whilst Erieye's will help datalink the F-16's, they will not be able to do so in the case of the Mirage fleet. Chinese origin fighter fleet will have AEW&C cover from the planned acquisition of 4 ZDK-03 (chinese Y-8 AWACS). The ZDK-03 contract is close to be being finalised for the required 4 aircraft - no delivery timelines mentioned. First Erieye will be delivered in 2009, folowed by the remainder by 2011

7) Block 52 F-16's will be based at PAF Shahbaz to replace Mirage aircreft in AD role. ''Final modifications are being sorted out in co-ordination with US authorities to ensure F-16 related facilities conform with DSCA standards/requirements''. Persumably this refers to the security guarantees asked for by the US prior to releasing the aircraft to PAF, in that the former wanted the ability to check (unannounced) the presence and location of these aircraft to ensure an example or two did not end up being loaned to someone (like China)

8) MLU of initial 4 F-16 aircraft in US is currently underway. Without giving anytimelines or as to where or by whom, the interview merely states that the MLU will continue for all remaining A/B models

9) Of the 32 F-16's on order there was no mention of which block is on order. Should one persume that the interview implies that 18 F-16's are of the block 52 on order + the 14 block 15 OCU's, the last of which were delivered last month.

A photo caption in the interview page states that a further 28 C/D's are being delivered. However the same issue on page 34 states that USN has not yet confirmed whether it is yet wiling to provide the ex-PAF aircraft it took into service, leaving PAF with a current tally of 14 Block 15 delivered. Can any aviation buffs confirm whether they agree with me if this is a typo error by AFM and that PAF is only hoping to acquire the embargoed A/B Block 15 models and not C/D's as noted on page 70 of the AFM September issue?

10) Peshawar based 26 & 16 Sqn's will be the first to convert from A-5 to JF-17 in 2009.

11) Delivery of JF-17 has already started and once the assembly facility has been completed at AMF, the induction pace will pick-up to eventually allow delivery of 25-30 aircraft per year to achieve the final numbers by 2015

12) Without making any reference to the first 50 JF-17 (persumably) already ordered, the interview goes straight to the question on the final configuration of the next batch order of 50 aircraft. Only thing mentioned here without going into specifics is that a final decsion on final configuration has been made, but the make and origin of the equipment type is under consideration. And no decision has yet been made on AESA radar.

13) 150 JF-17's are expected to equip 7-8 squadrons

14) PAF is acquiring 2 Sqn's of the Italian Falco UAV with coversion takking place for operations from PAF Mushaf and PAF Peshawar. Eventually, PAF plans to field 5-6 UAV Sqn's.

Can anyone shed some light on what is happeneing with the home grown Pakistani origin UAV's? If PAF isn't using them and nor is PN, is PA only using a handful of these whilst preferring to buy from abroad?

15) In 2015, PAF will remain at its current strength of 15 Squadrons. But the capability will be significantly enhanced by the composition of the ''high-tech and force multiplier'' equipment.

The interview ends with a note on Pakistan's time tested close relationship with China etc etc and a small footnote to say Alan Warnes is writing a book on the ''Modern PAF'', due out in early 2009. One can assume that he has been offered the opportunity to continue from where PAF Shaheen book club left off with its two books covering PAF history from 1947-1998, whereby Alan will likley write from 1998 to present.

Thats a good deal of info and confirms many things,thanx.But still the block of other F-16's required isnt specified and not much info on FC20.

18 : F-16 C/D Block-52 ( Being built)
14 : F-16 A/B Original agreement was for 28, of which 14 have already being delivered.

As for FC-20, the contract is likely to materialize by the end of this year for two squadrons ( 36 to 40 aircraft)

Yes unfortunately the level of details was not sufficient unfortunately. But at least a litle bit was made available albeight briefly. Guess there is nothing for it but wait for the book by the same author (who conducted the interview) and hope it won't miss out on such details.

BTW, the author Alan Warnes has his photo on the visitors gallery showing him during a visit to PAF museum and being shown around by Group Captain Usman Ghani (MD PAF Museum). So safe to assume that Alan has been able to strike a good relationship with PAF and it is fair to assume and expect a whole bunch of articles on PAF in the ensuing months following his recent and frequent visits to PAF.

is it confirmed that PAF will not excercise the option of another 18 Block 52+?

whilst not confirmed that PAF will not order an additional batch of 18 Block 52 F-16's, there was a small report somewhere that PAF had infact gone oast the deadline for securing the fixed cost pricing agreement. In short nothing to stop PAF from ordering more, but the contract price will be different as the option was not exercised in time. In turn, long lead component acquisition cannot be ordered at a set price as per the original contract for the 18

There is a bit of confusion here actually because USN is not wiling to release the 14 F-16A/B they have in service so its being said PAF would either buy a new squadren of F-16C/D block 52+ or go for additional 28 to 30 F-16C/D block40 F-16's as i have heard and upgrade them and put them into the inventory.

As some say the 2015 deadlin for 240 thunders is too optomistic but some agree its very possiable PAF will built some here, where as some would be build in China and be shipped to Pakistan, to increase the numbers and our capability on a rapid pace.

J-10 numbers would definately go up beyond 40.

Some make an argument that why bother with 5 SAAB Erieye AEW&C when only 60 to 70 F-16's would be data linked to it does it make any sense, hence people agree JF-17 and J-10 would be data linked to Erieye as well as the 4 ZDK-03 (PAF version of Y-8), although PAF wanted to buy these ASAP there are issues with crew comfort and noise level in the ZDK-02 although there is another version of the pplane which is much improved and has been modified and these problems wont persist in the ZDK-03. The 4 ZDK-03 (PAF version of Y-8) would work with the JF-17,J-10 and Erieye in conjunction and net centric enviourment but it is said that the F-16's wont be able to be datalinked to the ZDK-03 due to obvious reasons.

PAF Mirages would now also have AAR capability and they are here to stay till 2015.

The details in the iterview are little confusing or either it's a typing error > for example,

Q: How many new aircraft are on order right now and what are they ?

ACM: We have on order 150 JF-17s, 32 F-16s(?) four AEW&C Erieyes and four il-78 air-to-air refuellers.

Q: What do you think the PAF will be flying in terms of combat aircraft, come 2015?

ACM: In 2015 PAF will be operational with about 240 JF-17s, 60 F-16s, 40 FC-20S and 50 F-7PGs, backed up by AWACS and air-to-air refuellers.

so, it seems like there has been some interpretation toward the comment on J-10. My interpretation is this, we know that the current J-10 is getting a huge upgrade and that PAF is interested in the upgraded version. So, it makes total sense that the current one is not up to their requirement, but it will get there. But of course, I don't think PAF has a full evaluation of the new J-10 yet, so they will find out what is offered once that happens. But from what I'm reading, they are creating an export version of that aircraft.

As for JF-17, it's probably a good thing that the order is so high, because CAC would have to build a full assembly line. That would indicate orders from other countries and PLAAF also. We will see.

As for platform for ZDK-03, I'm not sure what's the status is with Y-9, but that's a possibility too.

tphuang welcome back long time no see anyway, i think if PAF wanted to have the current version of J-10 it would have ordered it long ago and it would have been reciving western upgrades but i am of the same opinion as you PAF is actually waiting for the new upgraded version which some Chinese members speculate would be as good as the EF-2000 and the Rafale in terms or equal interms of Radar, avionics,electronics ECM/EW suits i dont think there would be any big changes in the airframe. I have complete confidence PAF is actually waiting for it to take flight so that they could check it out and order it if it fullfills its(PAF's) requirements.

i've been around, but not much news have been coming out recently and I have spent much time watching the Olympics.

As for J-10, I think while PAF will help with the requirements for this export J-10, you will see other countries buying it too. We all hold high hopes for this new J-10, just waiting for some photos of it now.

I had was looking for you at sinodefence but didnt find you although i did read your posts you made on the J-11, you havent been very active on PDF do come around cause you know more whats happening inside China then i do, China bagged the Olumpics and it INSHALLAH will keep on doing it for many years to come brother.

As far as J-10 goes you and i both would agree with PAF China and our Chine brothers always adds that something extra if you know what i mean !

This is what the airchief said regarding the FC-20 (J-10),

"Yes, we have decided in principle to procure the FC-20 from China. The contract is likely to materialize by the end of this year. We like the big platform and it has a nose large enough for a decent-sized radar that can look long distances and have enough hard-points to carry lots of weapons - thus a big payload. We also want an Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar but whether we get that or not is still to be settled. We have not signed any contract for the FC-20 because the budget we have covers next 12 to 15 years and I cannot spend it all on one thing! We have a little time available so that's why we are not hurrying to make a final decision on the configuration. It's a good option that remains with us. There is a requirement for two squadrons (36 to 40 aircraft)of single and dual-seat types and we won't contract it in this financial year for budget restrictions. That will give me about 12 months to decide all the options, I.E radar, variant, etc. There are no plans for Conformal Fuel Tanks - it has a big internal fuel load, and can air-to-air refuel, so we don't really need them".

By 2015 we're looking at (60) F-16s. That means by then PAF would've retired its F-16 A/B Block-15 OCU models from the original batch of (40) and of which only 32 remain. If this is true, then it can safely be interpreted that PAF would be looking at a low number of F-16s as fighter/bombers. If that is the case, then it is safe to say that these F-16s would assume the responsibility of the A-5Cs. However since PAF's style is to diversify and force multiply, the roles would be wide ranged and not definate. Ideally I would love to see PAF by 2015 with (100) F-16s, (150) FC-20s, (250) JF-17s, (5) Erieyes, (5) ZDK-03s, (5) KC-30 (Airbus A-330) tankers.



It would be interesting to know whether the 150 would include JF-17 Thunder 'B' models. As much as single seaters are important to the fleet, so are the two seaters for our fighter pilots to train on and could be utilized in Naval role or Airguard role for AEWs.



Apart from the radars and missiles on the FC-20s, I would really like to see if the Chinese would be willing to introduce retractable refueling probe on this fighter. Other than that, the FC-20s are extremely potent and should be given more consideration over the F-16s.



Primararly nearly all the KC-135s are very much in a run down condition. I only hope that PAF would opt for the aircraft which have the lowest flying time on them and are structurally sound enough for upgrades and refurbishments. Personally it would've been ideal to get KC-30s, but I guess the cost factor does create a bit of an issue.



Ideally it would be preferred to have one of the ZDKs delivered by the second or third Erieye delivery. There is a very strong possibility that the PAF would be able to integrate both platforms (Erieyes and ZDKs).

Based on AFM and what Adam said on PakDef, the PAF is still holding out towards 1~2 Western refueling aircraft - either a KC-135 or A-310 MRTT...though he also said EADS is pushing the KC-30/A330 MRTT. The PAF may also buy more F-16C/Ds to make up for the lack of USN A/Bs.

IMO it is pretty clear that Pakistan will develop its own data-link interface for its diverse inventory...if it truly intends to have SATCOM and expansive C4I-SR, then our Link-Pak is a necessity.

So, FC-20 is coming after 2010, JF-17 order is certain to go beyond 150, Erieye and IL-78 are coming somewhere in 09, PAF is looking for AESA, Dependence on F-16s is to decrease (For good)... All in all good news looking at current political mess in country.

God willing these "political messes" die with the reliance on U.S. saga.

Mark
===
Inshahllah


Most interesting thing from interview is 5-6 Sq. of UAVs. Now this is pretty much new. AF will use UAV in NWFP and FATA most probably... or may be for advance reconnaissance mission along with Eastern borders. It will be interesting to see how these will be integrate into existing and future PAF C4I/C3I infrastructure. These sensors will also relay data to fighters mainly Thunders and VanGaurds along with Fighting Falcons and to ground stations. Now, As you said Pakistan will have to develop its own data link interface and then we will able to expand this data/information gathering and analysis operations beyond PAF alone.

Pakistan will relay on Chinese GPS along with own air and ground base sensors for at least two decades till 2030. In 21st century technology to acquire proper and timely information will decide the fate of battles, if not wars.
There is a great documentary on Net Centric Warfare...I will try to dig it for you.

Yeah! Found it.... Highly Recommended and a Must see & Must Have for all those who wants to understand network warfare and its advantages and disadvantages.


PBS Nova - Battle Plan Under Fire
English | Xvid | 512×384 | MP3 | 48Hz 16BiT STEREO | 700MB (Look @ your internet connection )

Two wars rage on the Iraq battlefront. In one, laser-guided bombs, networked intelligence systems and unmanned aerial vehicles dominate an overwhelmed enemy. In the other, no-tech guerrilla insurgents play by their own rules, inflicting casualties and sowing chaos and mistrust.This clash of ‘’smart” technology versus desperate terrorism is causing some experts and government leaders to seriously question America’s battle plan, spending strategies, and political policies. NOVA offers a rare first-hand look at the remarkable innovations—and lethal frustrations—of the modern battlefield.

With exclusive access to government and military decision-makers, go inside the Pentagon and key defense agencies and discover how ultra-advanced weapons and systems were rushed from blueprint to battlefront. See how ”network-centric” warfare is changing the way we fight. Hear the military leaders and experts argue that sophisticated technology may not be enough to prevail in a guerilla war. Finally, face the bigger question: In the heat of war, can even the most advanced weapons assure victory?

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As I see it, the F-16s, Erieye and Western equipment in general will be used for "useful purposes" such as the War on Terror, international exercises and perhaps even interoperability with the Gulf Arabs under the GWOT context. The PAF clearly sees the Chinese ZDK03 as a better long-term solution, and based on what the PAF ACM said - the ZDK03 is an AESA system like Erieye. What we're missing is a J-STAR/Sentinel like system...Saab is already has one on the market called SIGSTAR...I certainly hope Pakistan can acquire a similar system.

I think that the way PAF is planning its future clearly shows a two tier structure--one structure based on Chinese Tech--the second one based on US/Europeans tech. In other words in the very near future PAF will have two mini Airforces operating!!

Personally I think this is a very different and unique Doctrine--and the people who came up with this new Doctrine I think are geniuses!! Just think about it--isn't it unique to have two mini airforce within an Airforce??

Caesar i think bent on experience PAF has had with West/Europe one needed to have such a doctrine owing to the fact nations just ended up sanctioning us in case of the F-16's with US and in case of Mirage with France so the best option is to have 2 mini airforces in one.

The argument of them being mini would only apply if all the equiptment and air asscets couldnt be intergrated with one another but if they work with one another in conjuction and net centric enviourment the theory of them being two mini airforces doesnt apply anymore, its more of an IAF approach india always used Russian and Western stuff Migs, SU's etc etc with Mirages,Jags etc etc so think its similar to their approach one thing is for sure just like Russia doesnt sanction india like wise China never sanctions us and the flow of weapons is very smooth thankfully but one must be careful here whatever the PAF uses on the JF-17's and J-10's interm of Avionics,Radar,ECM/EW suits electronics + Weapons should be built inhouse under complete TOT so the threat of sanctions incase of War never percists again, things are going Mighty fine MASHALLAH lets hope it keeps on going that way.

The F-16s are a waste of money. The US government may pay for part of it's FMS programme but remember, the issue still involves disallocation of too much of Pakistan's foreign reserves. A better solution would be to invest in more JF-17 variants & in WS-13A development, with the hope of building it locally & enabling development. The J-10 would also make a good offer, since the Chinese still do not demand cash on the barrel-head for military hardware. This coupled with their already lower prices makes them the best option. The F-16 simply drains resources.

Spot on brother. However, having a handful of F-16 Block 52+ isn't such a bad idea. Pakistan could learn a hell lot from these machines and in essence transfer the tech to the JF-17s. Wouldn't you agree that having JF-17s in large numbers equivalent or close to F-16 Block 52+ would be a major boost for PAF? I think that's what PAF is aiming for despite the strings attached and other negatives. Let's not forget that the F-16 Block 52+ would be the most potent plane in PAF inventory.

Obviously, some pictures accompanied the Airchief's interview, one that caught my eye was of the pair of F-16s from No 11 (Arrows) squadron, one aircraft was of particular intrest as it was supporting the latest technology Gold-cling film canopy, first seen on UAE's Block-60 Dessert Falcons.
The gold effect is a radar retardent material.

I read the interview in AFM, I found it informative in the quantities and numbers regarding the future of PAF, but it was very vague in terms of what we can expect of the JF-17 and J-10 models to look like in the future. ie:- what engines, manufacturing jointly, elctronics, weapons carrying etc etc.
I suppose alot of this may be classified for now and only released at the very end.

good news !

can some one post the actual article scanned

apka matlab ? what did you mean ?

Pakistan is unlikely to be able to produce WS-13 on a large scale on its own. While China has no problem with the design, it has been struggling with components since some materials are not up to standard. It's the manufacturing process that is taking a toll and slowing down the project. With China having difficulties in making the engine parts, it's doubtful with Pakistan's current industrial capacity and political situation the deal will go through.

As far as the upgrade for J-10 goes, it's not due for another two years at least. 611 Institute from CAC is working on a major upgrade at the moment, but from what little information I can gather, it's still a little bit premature to say how capable it will be at this stage.