Enough is enough. President should use 58-2B to dissolve the parliament as it is need of the time. There could be many grounds and some serious grounds that government would not be able to defend in courts are as follows:

A: Government is run by two unelected thugs sitting outside the parliament and making decisions some time in hotels of Dubai and sometime in London.

B: Government is not sincere with problems facing the country but wasting time on non-issues and creating conflicts between state organs and institutions. Government is also replacing government officials at crucial posts on basis of personal like and nepotism, without even notices.

C: During their tenor, Pakistan has seen complete economical meltdown, political instability, bickering on ministries, while government is showing indifference about it.

D: Many of crucial ministries in government, including home ministry and information ministry, is getting run by un-elected members of party.

E: Country has experienced irreparable damage to the economy during short 4 month tenor of this government, that includes foreign exchange reserves getting reduced by around 7 billion or 40 percent, rupee getting devalued by 25 percent, National debt going up by over 20 percent (in 4 months), Stock market dropping 40 percent, prices of essentials going up by 30 percent, many industries closing down, many investments that was coming to country got stopped because of mistrust on this government, billions of dollars left the country, etc. While, all these are happening, none in the government seems concerned.


After assemblies would get dissolved, let see how this government of crooks and thugs would go to court and would defend themselves.

Later, President can annul NRO and pardon he gave to convicted terrorist Nawaz.

NRO was for NS??

You know what the funniest thing is?? Its the PML Q people who are saying that Moshe cannot repeal the NRO...

Specifically SM Zafar...

Theres a topic somewhere in the social section where I listed down all the people who were benefiting from the NRO...

Lets dig that topic up shall we??

http://pakistanidefenceforum.com//index.php?showtopic=76897

If Musharraf would go according to rules than yes, it would be very difficult for him to repeal NRO. Nevertheless, NRO is still ordinance and not passed by assembly (not a law approved by assembly). I think that once President would dissolve the parliament ... he should be able to annul NRO. As for who benefitted from NRO, I am least concerned about it and I do not think that there is anything for President to get concerned about it if he dissolves the parliament.

Anyhow, most important at present is to dissolve the assembly and then impose virtual martial law ... put election pending indefinitely on ground that lot needed to get sorted out before election ... that could go on for next 5 to 10 years.

Later, to annul NRO and annul pardon he gave to terrorist Nawaz, President should use same principle these crooks are so good in using. That is, President is annulling NRO and pardon to Nawaz on demand of the people, as that is what people want, and what people want is above everything, regardless of what constitution/laws says now about them. (Nawaz is using same argument when talking about reinstatement of the judges).

President can say that anti-terrorist court was started by Nawaz and many got hanged because of verdicts given by anti-terrorist courts. So, it is fair on those who got hanged by anti-terrorist court that person who started (Nawaz) should also go through whatever conviction anti-terrorist court decided about him. On the other hand, after dissolving the parliament, President can also put constitution in abeyance and act as if there is martial law, so annulling NRO as well as annulling the pardon he gave to Nawaz should be no problem.

Worse come worse, President can hold referendum in the country on these two issues ... NRO as well as pardoning conviction of Nawaz by anti-terrorist court. I am sure that in referendum, both NRO would get repealed and Nawaz pardon would get squashed. We also need blatant lies to public by politicians, journalists or anyone commenting on TV talk shows ... as crime that if proven should have capital punishment (without ifs and buts).

Salim
--------

Bro, Thing is everything Musharraf and Pakistan is facing today, Mush has a big share in it. His policies only saved his own skin despite the fact he did brought some reforms in country. But to be honest in 2007 he destroyed anything and everything he achieved as leader since past 6 years prior to 2007. Just look at the list

-9th March
-12 May
-20 July Lal Masjid (Though I agree that people of LM also share responsibility for the incidents but still govt. could easily avoid blood shed )
-3rd Nov

Now just look at this mess.....blunder after blunder....who was giving advice to him?

Salim bhayi;

Aap ko to emergency bhi nahin pata kia hay...

Emergency key andar according to the constitution, the parliament is supreme...

Aap mujhay pehley to NRO per convince kerain naa...

NRO main jo Moshe nay A-Z choron key cases khutum kerwaye thay wo kis terha "Pakistan kay haq" main thay??

You've seen the compilation of articles... Please explain kerain how the NRO was in Pakistan's interests...

"Terrorist" NS to naa teen main naa tera main...

Well, all what happened in Pakistan is because Musharraf made big mistake of running the country along with crook politicians, hoping that he would be able to satisfy Western powers that Pakistan has some sort of token democracy, so that they could help in development of the country. He forgave big time crooks also hoping that World could see some sort of democracy in the country. Unfortunately, he was wrong.

If I want to educate my kids, I would not give them in the hand of paedophiles. Just like paedophiles are dangerous for children, corrupt and thugs are dangerous to democracy. Just like a kid cannot be left with paedophile even if paedophile tries to show his face as teacher and well wisher of the child, a Country cannot be left with crooks and thugs even if those crooks and thugs show their faces as democrats and well wisher of the country. Nawaz and Zardari (along with crook partners in their parties) are same for Pakistan as paedophile is for a kid.

^ Yaar PZ, aap key A-Z mey NS bhi to tha na, ya nahee?
Aur Salim, Pres brought in NRO, he doesn't have the power to take it away, only the CJ does, not even the assembly does.
Pakistan's constituition has some flaws no doubt, but it's not that weak either.

August 17, 2008 Sunday Sha'aban 14, 1429

Musharraf ignores advice to bow out

By Amir Wasim & Nasir Iqbal

ISLAMABAD, Aug 16: The heads of the ruling coalition are expected to meet early next week to give a go-ahead to their plan to impeach President Pervez Musharraf amid indications that efforts to persuade the president to resign have slackened due to his insistence to do so only after going through the charge-sheet against him.

Sources in the ruling Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) told Dawn that party co-chairman Asif Zardari would meet PML-N chief Nawaz Sharif and heads of other coalition partners over the next three days to finalise the charge-sheet and to give final touches to the impeachment plan.

Top legal aides to President Musharraf said on Saturday that he had so far ignored all advices of his friends and legal aides to resign.

“During the meeting with me the president spoke his mind that he is not considering (the option) to resign,” said one of the legal aides advising him on a regular basis.

He said the president had been told in clear terms that he had no option but to resign or face impeachment charges.

In addition to some political bigwigs, Mr Musharraf has been conferring with constitutional experts like Syed Sharifuddin Pirzada, Abdul Hafeez Pirzada and Attorney General Malik Mohammad Qayyum to explore legal possibilities like invoking Article 58-2(b) to dismiss the National Assembly or approach the Supreme Court to challenge the charge-sheet.

“The president has been told that being constitutional bodies both the Supreme Court as well as the parliament cannot interfere in each other’s affairs and the apex court cannot impede the latter from impeaching him,” the lawyer who met the president on Friday evening told Dawn.

A number of PPP leaders on Saturday urged the president to “see the writing on the wall” and quit the office immediately after passage of the resolutions against him in all the four provincial assemblies.

Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi, while talking to reporters, asked President Musharraf to resign within two days, before submission of a final impeachment notice.

Information Minister Sherry Rehman said that the government would follow the constitution and law of the land during the impeachment process and the president would be given a right to defend himself.

The Leader of the House in the Senate, Raza Rabbani, said the ruling coalition did not want to bulldoze the process and the president would be given an ample time to respond to the charge-sheet against him. He, however, declined to say explicitly as to how many days the president would be given for a reply.

Sources in the PPP told Dawn that the party wanted that the president should leave the country after submitting his resignation or impeachment as his presence in the country could create problems for the government.

They said there could be any unforeseen development in case the president was allowed to stay in the country. A key PPP leader, who has a key role in the impeachment process, went on to say that perhaps the government would have to keep him (President Musharraf) under protective custody or house arrest to provide him foolproof security if he decided to stay in the country. He claimed that the coalition parties had readied a plan to meet any possible action from the president.

“We have already finalised the place where the members of parliament would hold the session if the president took an extreme step of using his powers to dissolve the assembly under Article 58-2(b).”

Meanwhile, PPP co-chairperson Asif Ali Zardari has started consultations on the charge-sheet against President Musharraf with the coalition partners. JUI leader Maulana Fazlur Rehman met Mr Zardari on Saturday and discussed the charge-sheet.

AFP adds: Saudi Arabia’s intelligence chief dashed to Pakistan on Friday for talks with the government over its plans to impeach President Pervez Musharraf, a senior official in Islamabad said.

“Yes, Saudi intelligence chief Prince Muqrin bin Abdul Aziz did visit Pakistan and met senior government officials,” a senior coalition official said on Saturday.

“The main purpose of the visit was to find an amicable solution to the (impeachment) issue and that no one should become a laughing stock,” the official said.

Asked what solution the coalition regarded as acceptable, the official said that “Musharraf should step down”, but that it was “really up to Musharraf” if his plans included exile to Saudi Arabia.

http://dawn.com/2008/08/17/top1.htm

You are right that it is not that easy to annul NRO ... but that is as long as constitution is not in abeyance. Once assembly is dissolved, President can impose virtual martial law (not like what happened in 1999), put constitution in abeyance and do what he wants. I am hoping that this time, things would be bloody and messy, not like past ... and many head should get rolled constitutionally or unconstitutionally. Let see what army as institution and army general in power can do for the country, for the sake of the country alone, and not worried about anything else for once.

It will better he face charges and not leave Pakistan. If he trialed then anyone after him will think twice before compromise on national issues and if he goes with out trail it will raise questions on

- Judicial system
- Political Parties
- Even Pervez Musharraf himself

He must be given a fair chance as per law and let him defend what he did and leave on courts his fate.

What charges? Nawaz faced the court and got convicted ... waiting to get hanged ... so that should get implemented. Don’t you think so?

Zardari also got convicted in some cases and many cases are pending ... why he should not face court? Why he should get away with silly ordinance like NRO? He should defend everything in court and should be handed over to Switzerland to face charges too ... as he is wanted in Switzerland ... well, unless Pakistan has withdrawn cases because of NRO, but why withdraw cases?

NRO is not withdrawal of cases.
NRO is not slate wiped clean, the convictions are still there.

NRO was just a presidential pardon (of sentence), like he gives to convicted criminals on Ramazan, Eid and August 14.

"Jao, tum ghuney ghaar ko mey ney maaf kia.
Ab tum log maaf ho gayea, aao mujhey maaro"!

What I know, NRO is withdrawal of cases by government ... not pardon of convictions. All pending cases (undecided cases) on politicians that started before 1999 (before Musharraf came to power) were withdrawn with assumption that since they are not decided for so long, it means they were politically motivated cases.

NRO does mean a withdrawl of cases; blank slate...

Doesnt matter if the guy has been convicted of a crime in a court of law or not...

It is the vilest piece of legislation in the history of Pakistan...

What that law says is that the bigger the criminal you are the better it would be for you...

According to the constitution of Pakistan; the NRO is NOT a part of the constitution... Neither are any laws that were introduced by Moshe after Nov 3... You need 2-3rd majority in Parliament for amending the constitution...

CJP Iftikhar did pass a motion against the NRO; as was right...

Had Moshe allowed the principled judiciary to remain; Aaj Pakistan would not be in the hands of looters such as Zardari... You know thats true...

If Moshe had stepped down then; and had elections; Aaj we would have had people like Imran Khan instead of ANP and PML N...

Resign to Moshe ko abb bhi kerna hay... Ziada sey ziada 58 2 B user ker sakta hay?? The end result is the same...

Pakistan automatically looses the 15 billion dollar US aid package named as the "Democracy Dividend" in case Parliament is dissolved. Can Pakistani economy afford that right now?

The hell with aid... It got strings attached...

Strings which are not in Pakistan's interests...

That was the original intention, yes (as agreed between BB and Musharraf).
However, only the CJ can decide upon that, not the state, to withdraw or not to withdraw.
There were many glitches in that ordinance, so it was decided to legally do what The President had the power to, pardon them.
Hence the reason, Zardari and NS are still both inelligible to run for office.

Why do you think that they couldn't stand in the general elections then, if not that their covictions are still there.
And thats the sole reason why Zardari doesn't want IC back in, in fact, he wants all judges totally new from scratch.

NRO would get repealed.

NS is the most popular man in Pakistan at the moment, Salim.

His pardon won't get squashed.

Too many believe the hijacking was a conspiracy by Musharraf to stage a coup against the democractically elected PM. Pehley in nadaanon ko to samajhayain.

You cant pardon someone, then take away the pardon...

Idiotic baatain... Any opposing cousel would have a field day...

its difficult to buy the idea that NS is the most popular man in Pakistan.

he didn't even get enough seats in his own backyard to form a majority govt, and situation has hardly improved in the past 4 months.

but if people still think that NS is their saviour and second coming of christ than they most certainly deserve Ameer-ul-Moemeneen Ganja

Edited...

Now that language was un acceptable...

You have been warned...

Nawaz - zardari - ppp - pmln are not popular, just see when there are election's. after feb 18 Pakistan is on down-slide.

You are absolutely right. They are the most hated thugs in Pakistani history. If you want to see their un-popularity than check viewers' forum of Jang where instead of paid journalists of Nawaz and Zardari, ordinary people write and 9 out of 10 believe that Nawaz and Zardari are both crooks. Here is the link: http://www.jang.net/vf/default.asp?PageNo=4

seriously ....


Nice Find and a half


58-2b or Marshall law it is .... seems like a ton of backing from Pakistanis is available at the moment.

This is all a drama being played for domestic consumption. Everything has already been decided!!

Musharaf's main job was to do a U-turn on every policy Pakistan was pursuing since 1947 including Kashmir. Then his U-turn on Afghanistan, then allowing US/Nato to use Pakistan air bases, then changes in ISI and lastly to bring in thugs to control the country in the name of democracy. This was all planned and Musharaf and Kiyani knew very well what was going on.
Musharaf is gonna leave cause he has done his job for US--but before he goes obviously they have to create this fuss just to give him some credibility. Once he leaves, then other pieces in the plan will slowly come into play. These include a stop to strategic partnership with China, economic control handed over to India, control of Nukes handed over to US and perhaps even some parts of the country being disintegrated.

The military will blame everything on politicians and that would be the end of all the game--but start of much more miserable lives for ordinary people!! This is my personal viewpoint--first presented in 2005 on this forum--but already becoming facts.

President Musharraf will face the charges and then dismiss the parliamentarians.
We'll have a caretaker government, re-elections, and Musharraf will resign then, allowing the new government to elect a new president.

Let's see what he has to say himself http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7567309.stm

Pakistan leader to address nation

Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, who is under pressure to resign before being impeached by parliament, is to address the nation, officials say.

On Saturday, the foreign minister warned Mr Musharraf that if he did not decide to quit within the next two days, he would face impeachment.

MPs are reportedly finalising charges they intend to bring, which they say include violating the constitution.

Spokesmen for the president have in the past insisted he will not resign.

There you go fellows--Musharaf will address the nation Today-- not to mention that I told u so!! I told you fellows that Musharaf will go and this is all a drama to make fool of people.

I hope I am wrong--I sincerely hope so--because if I am right then so are my other predictions. And the sad fact that Musharaf and Kiyani are involved in this henious destabalilsation plan.

Gone !!

I enjoy this part always in PDF :) its fun 2 see debates like these

Will ppp fight for Kashmir or just sell it?

Kashmir will go to whom ever will give the zaleel zardari the hightest percentage.

Surprisingly Ex-President Musharraf did not touch upon Kashmir at all in his resignation speech.

He has made sure ISI doesnt come in the control of crooks which India would very much love to see.

So dont jump to conclusions when the people and militants will make life a living hell for Indian soldiers in IoK.

There you go fellows--Musharaf will address the nation Today-- not to mention that I told u so!! I told you fellows that Musharaf will go and this is all a drama to make fool of people.

I hope I am wrong--I sincerely hope so--because if I am right then so are my other predictions. And the sad fact that Musharaf and Kiyani are involved in this henious destabalilsation plan.

Ceasar : if he goes it is bad, he doesn't go .. that too is bad .. do tell me what more are your predictions !

Must, in one of my above posts I said:



I sincerely hoped that I was wrong--seriously I was praying that I would be wrong--but unfortunately my friend with all sadness I have to say that whatever I analysed and whatever I am predicting above will come true--a lot of it already has!!

Whatever people have seen till now is nothing compared to what is about to come and engulf our country!! Just multiply your worst ever nightmare with 100 and will get the picture of what I am saying!!!